RTR: is there any way to make the Greeks...weaker?

[Rayven1]

The greek Phalanx in RTR is to strong.. My army is pre-marus reforms right now and the greeks give me a major headache. It seems like the strengh of the greek units has been increased a lot in the RTR mod. I can surround the Greek Phalanx and they won't break and route! Every battle with the Greeks turns out bloody no matter how good a tactic I'm using. I have no experience with modding with RTW so could someone tell me how to go about reducing the troop strengh of the Greek units? I've noticed they are as strong if not stronger then Post-Marus troops.

BTW: Nice job RTR team!

[Periklis]

You can always download a utility that change the unit stats (you will find it in this forum).

If you wont my opinion do not change the stats for two reasons.

1. The post marion roman troops have the power to demolish any Greek unit exept perhaps Spartan, Athenians and Corinthians Hoplites.

2. If you change the stats the game will be out of balance - meaning that the RTR team make an exelent effort to make the game as realistic as possible.

To conclude this way the game is more interesting. What is the point not fear the opponent. where is the challenge on that.

Here is the link to download the utility
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=627109

[Epistolary Richard]

You can edit all the unit attributes in a file called export_descr_unit in the Data folder. Have a look at the very top of that file for explanations of what the entries mean.

[Rayven1]

Its not that the AI is all that difficult its that the moral of the Greek troops is to high. The point of taking the field is not to kill the enemy to the last man. The point is to break the enemy formations, route them and then cut them down from behind. This is impossible when facing the Greek units with the pre-Marus units in RTR. They just won't break no matter what... I've almost surrounded them leaving a avenue of escape with a much larger army and they still will not break. I've tested and put my troops in a similar situation and sure enough my pre-marus troops will break.

From a historical viewpoint the only enemy I should have to have the Marus reforms to beat should be the Germans. The Teutons and the Cimbri proved that. The only reason the Romans were able to do the Marus reforms was the fact that the Germans attacked and were defeated in spain by the celtic tribes before turning attention to italy again and that gave the Romans time to push through the Marus reforms. The Maniple was proven superior to the Phalanx so I should have have the headache I have with the Greek troops.

[Periklis]

So the main problem with Greek armies is that they have stronger moral than they ought to have.

Can you prove it with historical facts. What I mean is that the Greeks did not louse because their troops did not have good moral or because there where outdated. They louse big time because the Greeks are the kind of people that always fight each other.

A fine example is that when Alexander died the empire divided to many section and soon after they start to fight each other. Another example from the resent History is that the Greeks after the WWII and when all Europe war restoring the greeks started a civil war.

On the other hand history is full of examples about the good moral of Greek troops.

Some examples from ancient History
Leonidas the Spartan and his 300 soldiers at Thermopiles, The battle of Marathona -(Both during the Persians wars – before Alexander) .

Some examples from not so ancient History.

The resistance of Souli where Turkish armies could not take for more than 300 years a little village while they had control all of Greece. They manage to take it after all in early 1800.

Some examples from Modern History

The defeat of Mussolini fully equipped (Italy) troops in 1940 at Epirus from un army that war lacking in equipment, had not air support of any kind as well as armed vehicles.

The battle of Crete when from that point on Hitler did not use paratroopers for great scale attacks ever again.

Winston Churchill once said ‘From that point on we will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks’.

To support my opinion on the moral thing I will add that ever Roman used Greek mercenary troops even after the Marian reforms.

[Simetrical]

We're aware of the hoplite balance problem, and it won't be an issue for 6.0. For the time being, you can download this quick fix and dump it in Rome - Total Realism\data\. It's fully compatible with existing saved games. In general, hoplites are weakened a bit—not too much, but possibly too little. Tell me what you think.

For the technical specification, by the way, the hoplites recruitable by the Greek Cities (Militia Hoplites, Hoplites, Armoured Hoplites, Corinthian/Athenian/Spartan Hoplites) had their primary attack, defense skill, and armor reduced by one point, and their secondary attack reduced by two points for normal hoplites and three for city-specific ones. (Militia Hoplites kept their defense skill of 0.)

-Simetrical