If it's not one thing, it's another...

[Crazed Rabbit]

Our growth in certain crime (which is minimal) = nothing to do with the ban on guns.

A gun ban has nothing to do with a rise in gun related crimes ? If that doesn't, then, pray tell, what does?

And kudos for avoiding answering any of my questions.

Crazed Rabbit

[Papewaio]

Gun Crime & Firearms Controls

In some areas, gun crime is a major cause of fear and distress.

Most worrying is the rise in the number of young people carrying real or imitation firearms, either to boost their image, or from a misguided idea about self-protection. Some of this is linked to gang activity, which itself is linked to the illegal drug trade.

Contrary to public perception, the overall level of gun crime in this country is relatively low – less than half of 1 percent of all crime recorded by the police – and in the year ending 31 March 2004, there was:

a 15 per cent reduction in homicides involving firearms
a 13 per cent reduction in robberies involving firearms

Even so, we have seen an unacceptable rise in gun crime over recent years, and are doing everything we can to tackle it.

[Papewaio]

Map & Graph: Mortality: Rifle, shotgun and larger firearm discharge (per capita) (Top 50 Countries)
View this stat: Totals Show map full screen

Country Description

Definition: Total for all ages and sexes. Database compiled January 2004. Total of figures for:
Rifle, shotgun and larger firearm discharge
Rifle, shotgun and larger firearm discharge, home
Rifle, shotgun and larger firearm discharge, residential inst Per capita figures expressed per 1000000 population.


Amount
1. Panama 1.35 deaths per 1 million people
2. Slovenia 1.03 deaths per 1 million people
3. Venezuela 1.01 deaths per 1 million people
4. Georgia 1.01 deaths per 1 million people
5. Slovakia 0.92 deaths per 1 million people
6. Estonia 0.70 deaths per 1 million people
7. Kyrgyzstan 0.61 deaths per 1 million people
8. Lithuania 0.55 deaths per 1 million people
9. Dominican Republic 0.45 deaths per 1 million people
10. United States 0.45 deaths per 1 million people

28. Israel 0.16 deaths per 1 million people

41. Canada 0.03 deaths per 1 million people

[Papewaio]

Map & Graph: Mortality: Assault by handgun discharge (per capita) (Top 50 Countries)
View this stat: Totals Show map full screen

Country Description

Definition: Total for all ages and sexes. Database compiled January 2004. Total of figures for:
Assault by handgun discharge
Assault by handgun discharge, home
Assault by handgun discharge, residential institution
Assault by handgun discharge, sch Per capita figures expressed per 1000000 population.


Amount
1. Dominican Republic 16.63 deaths per 1 million people
2. Colombia 12.43 deaths per 1 million people
3. Belize 11.25 deaths per 1 million people
4. Brazil 9.35 deaths per 1 million people
5. Luxembourg 6.60 deaths per 1 million people
6. Estonia 4.96 deaths per 1 million people
7. Venezuela 4.09 deaths per 1 million people
8. United States 3.67 deaths per 1 million people
9. Panama 3.03 deaths per 1 million people
10. Georgia 2.83 deaths per 1 million people

25. Norway 0.43 deaths per 1 million people

46. South Africa 0.02 deaths per 1 million people

[Proletariat]

These are next.

Gun control at least will mean that people won't make their own... but banning pointy metal things? Gee Mr. Professor! It's so hard to make sharp pointy stabbing instruments! Somewhere a village is missing its idiot.

[Papewaio]

[IMG]
Gun control at least will mean that people won't make their own... but banning pointy metal things? Gee Mr. Professor! It's so hard to make sharp pointy stabbing instruments! Somewhere a village is missing its idiot.

When looking at methods of mass murder I defer to Nazi Germany.

So I think we had better ban pesticides and ovens and...

How many mass killings in schools in the US have you seen by scissor weilding kids lately?

Howabout samurai sword weilding ninjas wiping out a dozen of their class mates in a hate driven rage?

NiKA Student "Oh my gawd it is the Star Wars kid beating the creationist teacher over the head with a pole. Oh Gawd he just rapid fired his collection of authentic episode 1 scissor shurkens into the astrology teachers class and wiped out all the pig gut reading students."

Or is the solution to give all children firearms?

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

A gun ban has nothing to do with a rise in gun related crimes ?

It doesn't neccessarily have to have something to do with it. You never know, if guns hadn't been banned gun crime might have risen far more than it actually has...although I doubt that, as the handgun ban had little/no effect on the average citizen.

[JAG]

A gun ban has nothing to do with a rise in gun related crimes ? If that doesn't, then, pray tell, what does?

And kudos for avoiding answering any of my questions.

Crazed Rabbit

Pape answered your question here brilliantly with the quotation of our GOVERNMENT report.

In some areas, gun crime is a major cause of fear and distress.

Most worrying is the rise in the number of young people carrying real or imitation firearms, either to boost their image, or from a misguided idea about self-protection. Some of this is linked to gang activity, which itself is linked to the illegal drug trade.

Contrary to public perception, the overall level of gun crime in this country is relatively low – less than half of 1 percent of all crime recorded by the police – and in the year ending 31 March 2004, there was:

a 15 per cent reduction in homicides involving firearms
a 13 per cent reduction in robberies involving firearms

Even so, we have seen an unacceptable rise in gun crime over recent years, and are doing everything we can to tackle it.

NOTHING about the banning of guns, which have been banned for a long time. All the rise in gun activity - which as shown in the quote is also minimal and falling - is down to our growth in gang activity and the 'hoody' nation we are starting to have. The fact that guns are banned probably keeps gun activity down far more than if they were legal. You have no idea about thew situation here but try and extrapolate your bogus arguments from the US to here, it is simply bollocks.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Pape answered your question here brilliantly with the quotation of our GOVERNMENT report.

Any country with more guns is going to have more gun deaths. The real issue is total violent crime.

we have seen an unacceptable rise in gun crime over recent years

Even though, according to you, guns have been banned for a long time. And for the stats saying falling gun crimes-see the above answer.

And the arguments certainly aren't bogus in the US, where violent crime had been dropping for decades (despite millions more guns over that time). Except, of course, in cities that have banned guns where murders have risen. Like Washington D.C., where murders rose 73% since they banned guns, while it dropped nationwide.

The fact that guns are banned probably keeps gun activity down far more than if they were legal.

Yes, I'm sure the criminals are always careful to follow the law.

All the rise in gun activity - which as shown in the quote is also minimal and falling - is down to our growth in gang activity and the 'hoody' nation we are starting to have.

Is it not telling that all this gang activity is growing, along with the 'hoody' nation, after banning guns? When you deprive citizens of an effective defense, you embolden criminals. You get punks who harass people because they know there's nothing the people can do to defend themselves. And soon enough, the gov't resorts to setting up cameras all over and passing Orweillian sounding laws like the 'Anti-Social Behavior Act'.

Can't you see? There was no knife problem a couple decades ago, but now there is because of the gov't banning guns and stopping citizens from defending themselves. Yet you continue to delude yourself into thinking that crime is being reduced, due to your dogmatic view that all guns are evil. And relentlessly the criminals become bolder and bolder.

And just to help you out, since I like you so much, here are the questions you haven't addressed yet;

1)Was there such a knife problem before guns were banned?

2)And what do you think will happen if, somehow, the cops get all the sharp pointy kitchen knives out of those people's hands who are unfit to use them? That crooks won't use something different but sigh and give up crime?

3)Especially since knife carrying by most individuals seems to be illegal. If they can't enforce that law, how can they enforce this?

Crazed Rabbit

[bmolsson]

You can always use the utopia arguments. If they start with banning knifes soon they will ban a pair of scissors as well. Or if they allow guns, soon people will have a grenade launcher on the lawn.

We need to see the more practical angle on things instead. In some areas it might be practical for the society to allow guns, since people have solved their domestic disputes that way for centuries. Other areas sit down, discuss and compromise instead, hence no need to carry a one meter circles pizza cutter as a final argument.

I can't personally see any reason for a civilian to carry a gun in any situation. The police and army personel as well as hunters and some other jobs do need it, and they have the proper education to handle it. Same thing with driving a bus or perscribing medicine. Some people need to do that in their day job, others don't and are not able to do so.
Of course there will always be criminals with guns, illegal drugs and joyriding buses, but they are to be dealt with in a practical manner. It can never be an excuse that the law enforcement doesn't work, if so you need to get it working. Plain and simple......

[bmolsson]

Can't you see? There was no knife problem a couple decades ago, but now there is because of the gov't banning guns and stopping citizens from defending themselves. Yet you continue to delude yourself into thinking that crime is being reduced, due to your dogmatic view that all guns are evil. And relentlessly the criminals become bolder and bolder.

If I am handicapped and not able to use a gun, how am I going to protect my self from these criminals you are describing ??

[GodsPetMonkey]

If I am handicapped and not able to use a gun, how am I going to protect my self from these criminals you are describing ??

You have to run him down with your motorised wheelchair!

Same thing happens when ever Stephen Hawking spots a creationist...

[doc_bean]

If I am handicapped and not able to use a gun, how am I going to protect my self from these criminals you are describing ??

Built in rocket launcher in your wheelchair if you need one. Vicious attack dog if you're blind.

[English assassin]

But back on topic....

The reasoning is, apparently, that people use kitchen knives in domestic fights and long pointy ones do more damage.

There are a few problems with this. The first is Proletariat's scissors. I spent yesterday tidying the garage and found shears, a machete, three hammers, a brace of chisels, various screwdrivers and a really enormous adjustable spanner, plus assorted saws to cut the body up. I never realised I was so heavily "armed", I should be locked up... Funnily enough about the only WMD I don't have is a long thin kitchen knife.

Second, although I don't buy into the "guns don't kill people" argument, surely the problem here is not a long pointly knife, it's domestic violence and the people who particpate in it. Could we please try to do something about the scrotes instead of hassling ordinary people for once? You would save more lives by telling women "If he hits you, leave, it will never get better" and giving them places to go than you ever will banning long pointy knives.

[bmolsson]

There are a few problems with this. The first is Proletariat's scissors. I spent yesterday tidying the garage and found shears, a machete, three hammers, a brace of chisels, various screwdrivers and a really enormous adjustable spanner, plus assorted saws to cut the body up. I never realised I was so heavily "armed", I should be locked up... Funnily enough about the only WMD I don't have is a long thin kitchen knife.

As long as you have it in your garage, there wouldn't be any problems. In case you bring your shears, a machete, three hammers, a brace of chisels, various screwdrivers and a really enormous adjustable spanner, plus assorted saws to cut the body up, when you go to the local bar and disco, then I would say you should be locked up. It's all about common sense. The one who really NEEDS a gun would of course have one. I can't see any reason what so ever for a normal civilian to carry a .44 concealed on his or her way to work.