Fall of Constantinople

[LeftEyeNine]

The jobs were those masters of handwriting called "katip"s. Neverthless, he industrialization of Ottomans was demolished by so many other reasons as well. The discovery of New World which led to loss of importance of trade routes that go through Ottoman reign, the militaristic defeats, the decay in the management levels all added up to Ottomans' fall back in industrial terms. And you know that you can not maintain your political power if you lose your economic strength.

Thus it is not rational to accuse Ottomans for Serbians getting overlapped in Industrial Revolution. Because Ottomans themselves were set back.

[Basiliscus]

To be honest, almost every european can associate something with Constantinople. Almost everyone loves the romanticism and the idea that the Byzantine Empire lay on the fringes of modern Europe. Losing it to the Turks was a major blow for ALL European's at that time, the Turk became an even bigger threat to Europe and the catholic world knew something must be done about it.

As the natural heirs to the Roman Empire, they have deep sympathy routed in many people's minds. Although the army had changed much from the Western Roman days, they still had much of the same legacy and political ideas entrenched deep within their society. And like all good Roman's, liked to fight between each other like spoilt children

It is a shame but like all historical tragedies they are now in the past and we can only speculate and discuss what could have been. I would love to visit Istanbul and see what was left behind by such a great Empire.

My favourite Ottoman idea was the janissary - a Christian child raised as a servant to the sultan. A certain irony exists in this idea, but as soldiers these were perhaps my favourite type medieval corps.

[Byzantine Prince]

I don't get you Wizard, why is it you put in so much superflous information? It makes every post you make seam arrogant, as if we don't know any of that stuff, which I'm sure I for one do. Not to mention you make mistakes.

Here's one:

You are not speaking Turkish, are you? It's a world away from the Romans, who turned everybody into speakers of Latin.

Serbians are a Slavic group of the Balkans which means they came in about the 5th century when the Empire was not speaking latin anymore nor could it enforce everyone to speak Greek, which became the official language the Eastern Empire. Albanians were under Rome since 168 BC and yet they retained their langauge for the most part.

With no trade, and no efficient agriculture supporting surpluses for trade, Constantinople emptied out until in 1453 there were only ten to twenty thousand people living there.

The reason they were 10,000 left was because the Turks had been besieging the area for decades on end. The trade was minimal and the food that come in was minimal so the people would leave for fear of starvation. Don't blame this on anyone but Turks.

[Magister Pediyum]

The Romaioi didn't forced us to bee greeks they gave us written word culture lords word.
They gave us chance to bee part of the tradition don't give me wrong i don't
say that i am always right but i am senior in medieval studies and as history is based on sources they speak that Orthodox people of europe where at least on same bases with the west and then the turks came if you don't belive me read Pseudo-Bertrand Burgundian knight who travelled thru Balkans from 1436-1440 and wrought of the desert he saw

[caesar44]

when the turks took const' in 1453 and even before , europe lost its trade paths to the east , so , the western europeans had to find another path to india and the rest is history

[Afsin]

Yep, that's why all those explorations started and how America was colonised. So in short if it wasn't for the Turks we wouldn't have the U.S. telling us what is right and what is wrong, wouldn't that be a damn shame?

[The Wizard]

Serbians are a Slavic group of the Balkans which means they came in about the 5th century when the Empire was not speaking latin anymore nor could it enforce everyone to speak Greek, which became the official language the Eastern Empire. Albanians were under Rome since 168 BC and yet they retained their langauge for the most part.

It was a comparison between the Ottoman and Roman empires. Whatever people inhabited the territory of what is now Serbia spoke Latin by the 2nd century AD. Mistakes? I think not.

The reason they were 10,000 left was because the Turks had been besieging the area for decades on end. The trade was minimal and the food that come in was minimal so the people would leave for fear of starvation. Don't blame this on anyone but Turks.

I strongly object. It was one of the reasons, but only one. People indeed left for Mystras because there they could live out a nice and calm life instead of being in fear of sieges.

But modern historians estimate the population of Constantinople at the turn of the 14th century (i.e. 1401) at fifty thousand at the very most. That's an optimistic estimate, mind you. A French chronicler who travelled alongside marshal Boucicault of France, who went to help Manuel II in the very late 14th century, noted that people lived in clusters of huts in the valley of the Lycus, giving the impression of a perimetered region in stead of a city.

But sieges are only one of the reasons. The pronoai system, which had at first been a system of land grants to favorite courtlings and family under Alexius Comnenus, had gotten totally out of hand and effectively turned Byzantium into a feudal society. The inefficiency that came with it led to a lack of surpluses, which led to a lack of tradeable goods. Then there were the Genoese and Venetians who fought out entire wars in Byzantine waters (three battles outside the Golden Horn within five years). And the Byzantines couldn't build any navy or trade fleets to stop them, because the tax collectors they sent to the great land owners just got paid off!

So: no livelihood, no-one in your city. Besides, the city had already been heavily depopulated in the Fourth Crusade and its aftermath. The sieges carried out by the Sultans were only one factor amongst many.

And if you feel that I am being arrogant towards you because I give a whole lot of facts to support my arguments, then I am sorry. I guess in the future I will try to support my claims without solid evidence.

The Romaioi didn't forced us to bee greeks they gave us written word culture lords word.

So, let me get this straight. If the conqueror takes away your culture, that is good? Remember that the Cyrillic alphabet was developed not under the Byzantines, but in the literary schools of Bulgaria. No conqueror involved. And the Turks did not do what the Romans did, for there are no languages in the Balkans today which are Altaic or based on Turkish. Unlike the Romance languages in Western and Southern Europe.



~Wiz

[edyzmedieval]

How come you're not a famous historian???? :-O

You know extremely well history!!!!

[Magister Pediyum]

First thing first it wasn't developed in Bulgaria it was developed in Solun Cyril and Metodije where from Solun and they where going on a mission from Romans to Slavs in Moravia.
Second Cyrillic alphabet has emerge from greek alphabet and third they gave as land to settle there was no major battles
force your argumets whit more facts it is the only way to study history but some facts that you have are a somewhat uncorrect but never mind that is the thrill of History we make mistakes we read and we correct them

[Byzantine Prince]

How come you're not a famous historian???? :-O

You know extremely well history!!!!

No he doesn't, he just memorizes those crappy Osprey books and then repeats everything. I can tell because he always includes superflous information he has read.

famous historian - isn't that an oxymoron?

[Magister Pediyum]

To Byzantine Prince:

Long live the land of Romaioi and the Prince who will one day bee crowned in purple who will bee called Prince of Romans or Romaioi may he rule from capital in Golden Horn well and we who are his children will bee with him side by side

[Byzantine Prince]

[QUOTE=The Wizard]So, let me get this straight. If the conqueror takes away your culture, that is good? Remember that the Cyrillic alphabet was developed not under the Byzantines, but in the literary schools of Bulgaria. No conqueror involved

.

Cyril and Methodius, Saints, brothers, born in Thessalonica, Greece, known as the “apostles of the Slavs.” In 860 they were part of a mission sent by the Byzantine emperor Michael III, called The Drunkard, to the Khazars, a Tatar people who tolerated all faiths and whose ruler practiced Judaism. In 862-863, preparatory to undertaking a mission to Greater Moravia (now Slovakia and the eastern region of the Czech Republic) in answer to a request from the Moravian ruler to Emperor Michael, Cyril created a Slavonic alphabet. Another mistake by our historian.

And the Turks did not do what the Romans did, for there are no languages in the Balkans today which are Altaic or based on Turkish. Unlike the Romance languages in Western and Southern Europe.

Turkish has a roman alphabet too.
The Romans didn't change the Balkan's languages either. The closest to that is Romanian but that is far from latin as well.

[Steppe Merc]

Khazars were by no means Tatar. They were Turks. The people most commonly reffered to as Tatars were Mongols, especially those in Russia. Khazars were pre Mongol, and not in any way Tatars. They were a Turkish people.