Sweet Realistic Medieval Combat (Mount and Blade)

[Quietus]

I must say after the intial "Hey thats pretty cool" i've lost interest with this and unistalled it. The fighting is pretty fun, but beyond numbers and heavy armor, theres nothing the AI can do to challenge you. And even then a good weapon and horse and numbers+armor mean nothing. The only real challenge is trying to build up a force of men since your own soldiers share the AIs talent for getting themselves killed. You have to constantly baby-sit your men in battle if you want to keep them alive, it becomes more of a chore then something fun.

But to be fair to the game, it is only a beta. Hopefully when more substance is put in it'll be worth reinstalling. I have read good things on the forums about more quests and the like, and the ability to own land/cities in the future. I only hope that the AI is worked on as well, give it a better ability to organize and fight rather then just mobbing the closest target.

First of all, what difficulty level are you playing? Do you use the overpowered/unbalanced crossbow? Have you fought more than 20 Dark Knights? Is your army balanced?

There are 50+ Dark Knights roaming around in my game.

I would suggest house rules to any player:

- Don't buy your equipment, just loot.
- Don't use crossbow and hide on top of the hill.
- Use a balanced army.
- Lastly, crank up to highest difficulty (which is "107%" in the game).

Personally, I like fighting khergit horsearchers since I ride a 'spirited saddle horse' my self. Chasing them around with shield/sword and bow/arrow simply is amazing!

[ChaosLord]

I was playing on hardest, Normal damage, Good AI, realistic saving to get the 107%. I did use the crossbow, but mainly just to take out other missile troops. I haven't fought 20 Dark Knights yet, but i've fought assorted Dark Knights/Dark Hunters, haven't seen 20 in one stack. My army was something like 11 Hired Blades, 6 Mercenaries, 3 Caravan Guard, and 2 Caravan Master(found them as prisoners and rescued them for a laugh) along with Marnid and myself. So I suppose its not all that balanced, but the neutral line of troops doesn't give you much options beyond Mercenaries/Hired Blades. I would have liked to upgrade some of them to some more advanced ranged troops.

And right now the only equipment i've bought rather then looting is my mail chausses(after I got a mail hauberuk or something like that I wanted my setup to match),my heavy voulge, and my horse. As for the rest, I don't really want to do that. Crossbows rarely account for any large number of kills except when fighting ranged troops, my heavy voulge does most of the work. My army can't really be balanced because I don't think its right for my mercenary warlord to go hiring Swadian/Vaegir troops, so i'm stuck with neutral stuff. The last i've already done, so theres no reason to do it again.

I'm not really that interested in imposing artificial challenges just to make the game slightly harder knowing that as soon as I got a decent weapon and horse, it'd all be too easy again. I'm not saying I don't like the game, i'm just "shelving" it as it were until better combat AI is put it in or more options for neutral troops so my merc has something to work towards.

[Quietus]

I was playing on hardest, Normal damage, Good AI, realistic saving to get the 107%. I did use the crossbow, but mainly just to take out other missile troops. I haven't fought 20 Dark Knights yet, but i've fought assorted Dark Knights/Dark Hunters, haven't seen 20 in one stack. My army was something like 11 Hired Blades, 6 Mercenaries, 3 Caravan Guard, and 2 Caravan Master(found them as prisoners and rescued them for a laugh) along with Marnid and myself. So I suppose its not all that balanced, but the neutral line of troops doesn't give you much options beyond Mercenaries/Hired Blades. I would have liked to upgrade some of them to some more advanced ranged troops.

And right now the only equipment i've bought rather then looting is my mail chausses(after I got a mail hauberuk or something like that I wanted my setup to match),my heavy voulge, and my horse. As for the rest, I don't really want to do that. Crossbows rarely account for any large number of kills except when fighting ranged troops, my heavy voulge does most of the work. My army can't really be balanced because I don't think its right for my mercenary warlord to go hiring Swadian/Vaegir troops, so i'm stuck with neutral stuff. The last i've already done, so theres no reason to do it again.

I'm not really that interested in imposing artificial challenges just to make the game slightly harder knowing that as soon as I got a decent weapon and horse, it'd all be too easy again. I'm not saying I don't like the game, i'm just "shelving" it as it were until better combat AI is put it in or more options for neutral troops so my merc has something to work towards.

Yes, I meant Dark Knights/Dark Hunters (since Dark Hunters upgrade to Dark Knights).

Its ok, those are just suggestions.

However, those guys you snipe with your crossbow would have been sniping at you while you use your Voulge if you didn't take them out so quickly. So the AI is disadvantaged in this respect.

For a change try bows on horseback, it's harder to aim (while stationary; while moving, it's a waste of ammo). Meaning you will have to worry about those enemy skirmishers as well as the ones on horseback. It's not artificial in that respect, because it is balanced.

If you've only seen 20 Dark Hunters/Knights you should wait for the 50+ to come up later and take on those guys (since you want a challenge). Personally, I chicken-out on 20+ mainly because i'm primarily a horsearcher and my personal stats and skills on melee are weak (like 0 power strike etc.)

From the Taleworlds forum, Hired Blades seemed to be the strongest unit to take on the Dark Knights. I've used them before until I've figured out the party type limits.

[King Ragnar]

Yay i finnaly have money to buy the game

[Colovion]

wow. I played it for the first time today. Just an hour or so and just the combat system is amazing. I haven't even gotten into very large battles - besides perfecting my skills in the Tournament in the starting area. I just joined their forum and started reading the FAQ.

[Colovion]

that hour ballooned into 4

and I bought. $12 well spent. wooo lvl 10

[R'as al Ghul]

Signing in as a new addict.

[Sethik]

Ahh, yes Dark Knights... truely wonderful battles. I remember once it was just me, Xarnia, Draton, and Kradus (I downloaded a mod that let you recruit the arena fighters) when all of a sudden I run into a group of 50+ Dark Knights (25 hunters, 24 knights, and one knight captian)! I met them in battle and was at a -15 disadvantage in the first encounter. It was just me and Xernia versus around 12-20 Knights/Hunters. That was certainly a fun meeting. Horses and bodies were strewn all over the field when I was done with them (Xernia got crowded and mobbed early on.) I tell you, nothing like riding around with a sword of war in your hand and a dozen murerous knights on your tail. I really wish that stats screen worked. I would love to know how many pansies in black armor I sent to the grave.

[Steppe Merc]

Heh. I downloaded a mod that added weapons, armors, and allowed to to recruit steppe characters units, as well as turning Vaegir knights into horse archers.

[R'as al Ghul]

So, I've build this character and most of what I did so far
was to talk to everybody in Zendar. Then I started fighting.
I lost my whole money in the arena while learning and now
I've only about 150 left. I gained some experience and skills though
and advanced to Lvl 4.

I only just discovered that you can zoom in with the bow,
doesn't help that much though.
Also, swordfighting is really weird, I can't seem to get it right.
Okay, I win but that's kinda random. I'm just chopping at the guys until they're
dead but I can't direct my moves sufficiently.
My best discipline is the couched lance attack. Weird, isn't it?
Just knocked one down with 100 damage couched attack!!

Addictive to say the least. I can't wait to get some money to
leave town and start to kill those bandits.......
My intention is too win some money back in the arena because
trading isn't really an option when you only have 150 denari.
Any suggestions on how to speed me up?
Is salt trading a fast way to gain money when you start low?

BTW, the Daimyo Wars mod looks promising.

[Dutch_guy]

yes trading salt is a very good way of becoming rich fast, however you will need to have a little more than 150 D , since salt costs 70 .
so once you get your money up to say... 500 then you will be able to buy lot's of salt and sell it in Zendar for 2.5 times the buying price

[Crazed Rabbit]

You can make lots of money selling the loot (swords, armor, etc.) bandits and pirates drop. That's how I've made most of my 145k.

Salt trading, as has been said, needs a larger initial investment to actually make the salt mine to Zendar trip worthwhile. And even then, its not as fun to me as hunting down people and selling their stuff.

For the swordfighting, if you're looking left of your character (at least in 3rd person view) then you'll swing right to left, and vice versa. If you look up above your guy, you'll chop downwards, if you look at your feet you'll stab with your sword. Have you talked to the trainer of Zendar? He's next to the tourny master and its a good place to learn the ropes o' combat (but not ranged combat).

Crazed Rabbit

[R'as al Ghul]

You can make lots of money selling the loot (swords, armor, etc.) bandits and pirates drop. That's how I've made most of my 145k.

Salt trading, as has been said, needs a larger initial investment to actually make the salt mine to Zendar trip worthwhile. And even then, its not as fun to me as hunting down people and selling their stuff.

For the swordfighting, if you're looking left of your character (at least in 3rd person view) then you'll swing right to left, and vice versa. If you look up above your guy, you'll chop downwards, if you look at your feet you'll stab with your sword. Have you talked to the trainer of Zendar? He's next to the tourny master and its a good place to learn the ropes o' combat (but not ranged combat).

Crazed Rabbit

My first character died on the way to the salt mine.
I was ambushed by two large parties who killed my horse.
Without horse and money I figured I start again.

My new character looks promising. A hunter.
So far I've made the trip to the mine two times.
The third time it was empty. I bought this padded cloth
for the NPC and a falchion, a hood and simple armour for me.
I recruited some 10 townspeople and my mob killed the first
River Pirates. Loot was insubstantial though. Couple of stones
and a knife.

The fighting works better now. The "point of view" is
very important when you deal your blows. And moving
while striking is also quite effective.
The zoom function of the bow makes precise shooting
actually more difficult for me.
Looking forward to building the new character.

Does the Salt mine refill after a few days?
How important is resting/ sleeping?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Yes, the salt mine refills. I don't know how long it takes, though.

Sleeping and resting are, as far as I can tell, totally unimportant. I only stay in taverns if some group is chasing me and is faster (or I want to pass the time).

Crazed Rabbit

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

All shops "refresh" every 3 "days" in game - at least that is what I think I heard on their forums. Which makes sense. It takes more than 3 days to get to the mines from Zendar and go back. But I think this holds true for all shops.

----------

I don't know how many of you have seen this planned mod for M&B. It's a total conversion essentially based on vanilla RTW, from the perspective of some legionnaires lost in Greece. I had wanted a mod like that, but I was disappointed that the team is going for a sorta-historical approach to it. By sorta I mean "based off RTW." I was interested in a mod that was more "psuedo-historical," like M&B is to the medieval period. It feels medieval, but has no direct reference to the actual period. The Lost Legionnaire mod directly references aspects of history because RTW does (or tries to ).

So I figured, "Why don't I make my own mod?"

And then I realized its because I have no skills.

I have some ideas, though, and I may try to learn what I need to mod M&B. The mod I was thinking of would be a "psuedo" historical mod of the time of (maybe) 270 BC - but from the perspective of "barbarians" who are being slowly invaded by an "empire." And it would feel kinda like the Gallic and/or Germanic tribes, but not directly reference them. Etc. There would have to be a lot of fresh content. And new models, skins, etc (that's where I would need the most help with). I would ask the EB team if they could do anything, and ask the Lost Legionnaire team if they would like to collaborate a bit.

Obviously, I'm looking for help. If there are skinners, modelers (particularly those familiar with Blender, the program the game models were made with) or anyone else willing to chip in, I would be grateful. I don't really feal comfortable with the M&B forum and community yet, so I haven't posted anything on their forums - [also] yet.


Whew. Lots of typing.

[Steppe Merc]

I feel your pain. I also have no skills, which is why I joined EB, so I can do the research and the talented do all the work.
I wish the too sides had more radical differences. For example, one is infantry based while another cavalry based, for example. The one mod I downloaded The Magnificent Seven is pretty good, the best I could find.
But yeah, a more realstic aproach would be good...

[desdichado]

Sleeping and resting are, as far as I can tell, totally unimportant. I only stay in taverns if some group is chasing me and is faster (or I want to pass the time).

Crazed Rabbit[/QUOTE]

sleping in a tavern heals your hitpoints and those of your crew that are wounded so is more useful than just hiding from large groups of big bad men - of which i've done plenty in this game.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Good point ^^ I had forgotten about that.

Alex, I'd be glad to help out, though I, too, am skillless. I might be able to do some skinning, and maybe some non-human modeling, but I don't reall have any experience.

Crazed Rabbit

[Quietus]

All shops "refresh" every 3 "days" in game - at least that is what I think I heard on their forums. Which makes sense. It takes more than 3 days to get to the mines from Zendar and go back. But I think this holds true for all shops.

----------

I don't know how many of you have seen this

So I figured, "Why don't I make my own mod?"

And then I realized its because I have no skills.

I have some ideas, though, and I may try to learn what I need to mod M&B. The mod I was thinking of would be a "psuedo" historical mod of the time of (maybe) 270 BC - but from the perspective of "barbarians" who are being slowly invaded by an "empire." And it would feel kinda like the Gallic and/or Germanic tribes, but not directly reference them. Etc. There would have to be a lot of fresh content. And new models, skins, etc (that's where I would need the most help with). I would ask the EB team if they could do anything, and ask the Lost Legionnaire team if they would like to collaborate a bit.

Obviously, I'm looking for help. If there are skinners, modelers (particularly those familiar with Blender, the program the game models were made with) or anyone else willing to chip in, I would be grateful. I don't really feal comfortable with the M&B forum and community yet, so I haven't posted anything on their forums - [also] yet.


Whew. Lots of typing.

I've downloaded Blender thanks to the Mod topic over there. Looks like an excellent program (free as well).

I have no modification-skill too. Just learn the program I guess. I mean, I didn't know how to make a signature until Kraellin posted about the GIMP a couple of months ago. And that's basically a 2d program. Blender does 3d.

Ra's,

Don't just do the salt mine. Do the whole map. There are two trade pathways there. The major intersection/fork/hub is at Rivacheg. That's why I've said earlier that Merchant class is the easiest because you can upgrade really fast with an initial capital.

The salt mine path is unique though. That's only between Zendar and the Mines. Zendar to Tulga is neutral path as well but it ramps up to one of the pathways I've mentioned.

Lastly, I'm starting to get what people meant by going 'solo'. With 2 Riding, 100+ double handed skill (and even with 33+ encumbrance), zero powerstrike, 63 Health points and using trusty spirited saddle horse, you can do alot of damage to those Dark Knights as they chase you around.

I can only imagine if you use a truly melee-centric character as mine is practically just a horse archer and I was using a 'chipped Bastard Sword' against those knights.



ps, you are still vulnerable to arrows and other missiles though. The AI can perform headshots while on galloping on horseback.

[R'as al Ghul]

Hah!

Leveled up to 11 with my hunter.
I've some 7000 den cash and some good skills.
Archery=105+, Onehanded= around 75, Strength=10, Agility=10
I bought a Khergit bow which is really an improvement. I actually
can kill with this toll at a single shot.
And I'm quite a good shot if I dismount in battle. (You can hide behind your horse )
I only take the salt road occasionally nowadays. After clearing the quest for the river pirates I started to chase
mountain bandits and caravans.
They have some nice loot sometimes. But they're also pretty tough. With my
balanced Longsword I couldn't kill enough of them. Then I bought this huge
onehanded mean axe (large war axe?). Strangely it feels "soft" when you chop
at anything with it and it delivers way more damage. But the best weapon
so far is the great lance I bought for 1700 den. Combined with my courser
I run everything down that survives my bow, between 80 and 200 damage.


Any recommendations concerning armour?
I've this ultraheavy (16) "crude chain hauberk" which gives a lot of
protection, a real lifesaver, but is so heavy I can hardly move.

What's the best one handed weapon?

R'as

[Crazed Rabbit]

I just get the best armor I can. It is important to get high athletics skill if you're going to be doing a lot of ground fighting, so you can run fast in heavy armor.

The bet one handed weapon is very subjective, imo. For blunt damage to knock out a noble, you'd want a heavy spiked mace. An axe can do heavy damage and destroy shields, but is usually slow, while a scimitar (what I use on horseback along with javelins and a 2 handed sword) is very fast, so you can get in a hit quick. And, of course, you've got the usual run of slightly different swords, like nordics and broadswords. It all depends on what you want.

Crazed Rabbit

[Quietus]

Any recommendations concerning armour?
I've this ultraheavy (16) "crude chain hauberk" which gives a lot of
protection, a real lifesaver, but is so heavy I can hardly move.

What's the best one handed weapon?

R'as

One of my houserules is not to buy but to loot and the best armor I've had is the plate armor. It constricts your movement though. I think there's one better armor than this which is the black armor but I've never have the opportunity to loot one yet so I can't comment on it.

You do need high armor against those Dark Knights, just as an insurance. Those guys carry the heavy weapons. Crossbowmen are nasty too. One hit in the head and no matter what armor you have you are done. Not to mention those sharpshooting Khergits.

The best single-hand melee, killing weapon is a toss-up between watered-steel nomad sabre or the watered-steel scimitar. I used to like the scimitar more because it is slightly faster, but the nomad sabre is slight longer. I've since switched to the nomad sabre. If you want to knock-out people, you need a blunt weapon.

Lastly, double-handed weapons on horseback will be used single-handedly but you can't use a shield.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I just started a new character as a beserker, going minimal armor and two handed weaps (though I still got the starting sword.) Missile weaps are my weakness :(.

I least I have an original name: Conan!

Crazed Rabbit

[Quietus]

I just started a new character as a beserker, going minimal armor and two handed weaps (though I still got the starting sword.) Missile weaps are my weakness :(.

I least I have an original name: Conan!

Crazed Rabbit

Are you going solo?

[Big_John]

Are you going solo?

he should rename borcha to subotai and outfit him accordingly.. also, he needs to replace the music with basil poledouris' score!

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well, I've got Borcha with me, but he's not much good. Occasionally I pick up a manhunter or two, but that's it. It'll get interesting at the higher levels (and when I get a two handed weap). Just need to fight some more sea raiders.

basil poledouris' score!

Good idea. I really like the music, now I just have to...uh...pull out that old CD of mine...

Crazed Rabbit

[Big_John]

Well, I've got Borcha with me, but he's not much good. Occasionally I pick up a manhunter or two, but that's it. It'll get interesting at the higher levels (and when I get a two handed weap). Just need to fight some more sea raiders.



Good idea. I really like the music, now I just have to...uh...pull out that old CD of mine...

Crazed Rabbit

it's such a good idea, i think i'm going to steal it for myself! i'm sure i can figure out how to rename borcha from the M&B mod forum.. now, how to outfit him as subotai? a khergit bow and scimitar? khergit or rawhide armor? definitely a steppe cap (or whatever it's called). i actually do have the conan the barbarian score.. it's one of the first CDs i bought, iirc. can the in-game music be modded?

[R'as al Ghul]

I upped to Lvl 13.
I'm a target for gangs of Black Khergits atm.
My own little troop consists of Me, Marnid, Borcha,
4 Vaegir Horsemen, 2 Vaegir Veterans and 2 Vaegir Knight.
Against a mob of 20+ Khergits we don't stand a chance, though.
I try to avoid them and concentrate on mountain bandits, steppe bandits
and the like.
I've returned to Lance (ca. 90) & bow (122) with the occasional use of the axe for good measure.
I've also experimented with the "dismount" order. It can work well against the initial charge.

The balanced morning star I looted was no joy to use. Sloooooow attack and unsatisfying damage.
It's suicidal to fight against scimitar armed steppe bandits with a crude mail hauberk plus one
of the slowest weapons. It does kill horses almost instantly though.

I'm still looking for a foot weapon that kills instantly.
With so many enemies I assume it's important to bring home the kills more frequently, although
I noticed that the guys I've hit once don't survive the next attack by my comrades.

And I still don't get every attack move right.
Having the enemy on the right and swinging the axe on the left while galloping
top speed is frustrating but still happens all the time.
GAH! I guess I need to fight a few tourneys again.....

[Rosacrux redux]

After experimenting a lot, especially with lance and swords on the horseback, I've come down to a grand hero I call pigface (I made him buttugly) and that is now lvl 32 (you can tell I've been playing only this game for the past month, huh?).

He is a foot archer. He hasn't got a single point in riding skill, so he moves on foot all the time. Right now, the main stats are power draw 5, ironskin 5, athletics 5 - I've got decent stats all over as well, but fairly low diplo skill (got me a gang of 27 lads - barely adequate against the harder opponents) . My bow skill is 280 and rising, and my only other noticeable skill is in two-handed weapons - I got a great sword as a second weapon. I carry a war bow and two bags of bodkin arrows, plus a couple in the backpack. I wear a reinforced leather armor, but also a black helmet and greaves.

The warbow with such a high bow skill and power draw of 5, does INSANE damage! Every second shot (against weak oponents - bandits and the likes - even more) is a head shot and I even can kill black knights with one shot sometimes. Kherghits and the likes don't stand a chance - I get some high ground and pick them one after the other with my arrows. When few enemies get close, my great sword makes short work of them, but if they are many (and my gang's gone) I am dead meat due to light armor, no shield and slow weapon.

It is the most enjoying character I play and I am having great fun with him. Taking 60+ black knights with this character and gang, is quite challenging, although the only other oponent that can be a pain is a war party (those with the 120+ guys... bloody endless!).

[R'as al Ghul]

Played a bit again yesterday.
I actually went back to Zendar to play a few tourneys.
Booooring! There's absolutely no way to loose at lvl 13.
Battles are over before they begin. The only thing annoying is to spawn as foot melee guy against a mounted archer.
It can take quite long. These successes at least insured me that I do use the weapons right.

I also improved my h2h tactics. Now I do survive being mobbed more often.
I found out that the Vaegir skirmish/archer/sharpshooter line is quite effective.
Before I concentrated solely on Horsemen of every flavour but I think it's better to have at least a balanced army if not a foot-only army.

Now the million dollar question:
What equipment do you give to Marnid and Borcha?
Right now they both carry bows + 2 sets of arrows, shield + spear, a falchion or winged mace, appropriate armour and horses.
No need to tell you that they always get knocked out pretty early and don't really score kills when not fighting against the easiest
opponents.
I heard it's good to get rid of Marnid's horse and equip him with xbow and 2h melee?
This brings up another question. What's your opinion about poleaxes, glaives(sp?), halberds and the like?
I imagine they rule the battlefield?



P.S.: I turned down the mouse sensitivity a bit. Feels a lot better. I guess
my optical mouse is too fast. Try it if you have problems.