'Featureless' Expansion

[Wishazu]

insults??? i cant see any. all i can see is a comment on your poor spelling etc. like i said, maybe you should return to the stw forums or wherever, instead of feeling the need to react to every opinion that is counter to your own. Anyways, ive made my point and i cant be bothered to spam this topic by replying to everything you say. Laterz.

[Shambles]

insults??? i cant see any. all i can see is a comment on your poor spelling etc. like i said, maybe you should return to the stw forums or wherever, instead of feeling the need to react to every opinion that is counter to your own. Anyways, ive made my point and i cant be bothered to spam this topic by replying to everything you say. Laterz.

And this is not a reaction?

Pardon me my freind But you seem to be getting terribly worked up over this issue and prehaps you should take a break

By the way ,
If you do have some thing constructive to say
Why dont you reply to my initial remark of Ea not wanting the game And now sega being rumorerd to take over from activision,
And the fact that CA are being tossed around like a proverbial hot potato,

of cours you could keep throwing verbal abuse my way In futher proof that you are indeed being worked up over this matter,
and there for your inital comment of Leaving this forum as you are getting worked up about it,
Is in deed best directed at your self,
(you made no point my freind You mearly wound your self up did not answer 1 question deviated from the matter at hand and tried underhanded insults)


But I would like some one to explain to my Why EA (a company buying up Almost ALL games Would not keep hold of the total war games)
And why now is activison also rumored to be giving way to sega,
also How can people blame activision for the short number of patches if STW receved the same amount and then Ca were publishing there game through EA

ShambleS

[Lord Preston]

shambles. it is clear to me you have no idea how the game industry / computing world works.

you keep saying how programs are unfinished, they are not unfinished, quite often in large complex programs (such as i am sure R:TW engine is) it will not get fully tested until done by many people.

they also have a time period set to create these programs, usually there will assign some time to test and fix any issues but with new engines this might not be enough. Other games such as Raven Shield use existing engines (Unreal engine) which is used in many games so has been fixed.

technology in the computing world has a lifespan, if CA waited until the game engine was perfect and EVERYONE was happy with it, the technology could of been outdated, causing them too lose lots of money, risking the employees jobs and the future products they could make with the revenue.

Also it is common for programmers to leave the employment of a company, often they will leave for a better position at another company or will of completed a masters degree ect so will move on to that field.

So please, learn about the industry before you critise and "inform" them of the release from the company.

[Shambles]

shambles. it is clear to me you have no idea how the game industry / computing world works.

you keep saying how programs are unfinished, they are not unfinished, quite often in large complex programs (such as i am sure R:TW engine is) it will not get fully tested until done by many people.

they also have a time period set to create these programs, usually there will assign some time to test and fix any issues but with new engines this might not be enough. Other games such as Raven Shield use existing engines (Unreal engine) which is used in many games so has been fixed.

technology in the computing world has a lifespan, if CA waited until the game engine was perfect and EVERYONE was happy with it, the technology could of been outdated, causing them too lose lots of money, risking the employees jobs and the future products they could make with the revenue.

Also it is common for programmers to leave the employment of a company, often they will leave for a better position at another company or will of completed a masters degree ect so will move on to that field.

So please, learn about the industry before you critise and "inform" them of the release from the company.

I see you make no mention of patches,
A concept That Most people who frequent the internet would be familiar with.

You release a game,
You find a problem
You release a patch,
You find a problem
you releas a patch
and you keep doing this
Untill finaly there are no problems,

This is true for hardware and software,
Some 1 must not have mentioned this to ca

And that is The problem that needs to be adressed

and before you blame it on activision,
I doubt that EA and activison have the exact same policy on patches,
Also,
could you address the point in the above topic Of how people are throwing ca back and forth like a hot potato.
with Sega being next in line to catch it,

I keep saying Rome has Massive potential,
But unfortunaltly ca Only care about revenu,
They dont care if the game works properly or not,
and refuse to release patches,
You cant seriosly blame Activision as i have never had this complaint with them in the past,

ShambleS

[Lord Preston]

patches

the attempts to fix bugs that have been found since release.

i myself write programs that are no where near as complex as R:TW, even the best designed programs can have unforseen problems until it is tested and released.

Some problems can be fixed with a simple change in the code, a bracket here or there, re-ordering code ect. but some require massive changes in scripts, which then could create new problems elsewhere.

hence if a "bug" is not MAJOR (ie. affects the game hugely) but requires lots of code change it is not worth the risk of creating new problems.

there are a lot of bugs, but most are not MAJOR, hence the number of changes needed could create even more problems. i have no problem with CA taking there time addressing these, maybe developing the R:TW engine for a future game.

i think you expect too much from R:TW and should stop slagging it off and appreciate what it does. for all the bugs its works well, it has many more features compared to other games, the number of stats and comparisons it has to do

MOST of them work well.

think of a game like Championship Manager, all those stats and equations, then tell them to create a graphics engine and they would of laughed. for the size of the project R:TW was its was WELL DONE! and can only get better

EDIT: can someone disable his edit feature?!?!? every post gets changed...... my post still answers it though

[Shambles]

I do not change my post I mearly re word it ,
And you seem to hold many of the same ideas as I do,

I also say the Rome total war engine has huge potential.
And in deed i Look forward to future games,

Just as you do,

I also beleve rome total war can only get better (lets face it it cant get much worse)
However i do not beleve it was well done,

I also write scripts and make some basic games so I know exactly what you mean,
Some bugs can be buerried under Piles of code and almost impossible to find,
This would mean i would haft to re write everything,
So i dont bother,
Having said this,
I dont make millions out of my games and in fact i dont make 1 penny,
so why should I
Where as ca do make money and ther for should take the time to release a patch,
If they have the time and revenu to fix the problems in an expantion,
this blows your reasoning out of the water,

However,

I do not see this conversation geting very far,
And i also do not know why i bother,

Its your money.
Do with it what you please,
But if you are unhappy with what you buy,
I do not expect to see you complaning.
Where as I on the other hand Will Be saying things like,
I told you so,

I really do hope the xp is as Great as every 1 hopes,
In fact i hope its as great as I wish it to be "that would not be perfect"

But it would mean,
All the bugs would be adressed.
CA adopt a more realistic patching policy.
and that Finaly I get a game that dosent imedatly get religated to The "unwanted" pile,

So I really do hope this game comes out as good as you all hope if not better,
And you can all tell me so when you buy it,
And i will honestly be happy for you,


p.s
Try to imagine how many posts there would be if i did not Edit my posts my freind.

not only do i correct my wording .
But i also address new things that i have just read after other people edited,

And by the way,
A good way of knowing if im done editing is to look out for my name at the bottom,
I do not add that untill done
---------------------------
ShambleS

[Bigfootedfred]

i havent read the entire thread but i presume we came to bugs and glithes, as this is a converstion about the expansion, and it is widely hoped that the expansion will fix alot of the bugs in the game.

CA will not release antoher patch for RTW.
they have stated this many times.

hopefully the expansion, and possibly the patch for the expansion will clear most things up.

it was the same back in the days of MTW, viking invasion "finished" MTW, it completed it.

im am certain BI will do the same for RTW

[Lord Preston]

you do not re-word. your post about patches went from one line to a essay.

you over estimate the money they makes on games, no doubt they made a lot of money but R:TW was first drempt up at the shogun time. this is a huge development time

the company also makes other games, which arn't so successful, some i might say flop, and lose money, the major games have to cover this, it also has to cover advertisement, production, employees wages. not just programmers wages but marketing other employees.

illegal version are also a increasing problem, revenue from games has dropped due to the availability of "cracked" versions about. creating new problems for programs who have to develop ways to try to prevent this. taking valueble programming time away from the actual game.

all of these peoples jobs are on the line so to say that they should just keep fixing a game until it is "perfect" and everyone is happy is laughable. you are asking a company to hold other developments, risking there future products success, how often do you see a "new" game come out but looks like a game from 1 or 2 years ago and does nothing new... this is what you are asking them to do.

i can not be bothered trying to explain this to you anymore. you are in your own world and refuse to accept the reality of the gaming world. you blame money grabbing companies, well i know of pleanty of companies that have gone bust due to not keeping up with technology.

finding a balance is the key, they addressed problems and have then moved on to the next product. hopefully that product will have addressed the problems discovered in the old one, to create perfect games first time, on time is a dream.

EDIT: and he edits it again.... suprise suprise. this is my last post on this discussion, CA have took too much slating from people who do not understand the industry. if they refuse to accept the reality that is there problem

use preview, then post instead of editing after people have replied.
good day to you all

[Ianofsmeg16]

I do not see this conversation geting very far,
And i also do not know why i bother,

Its your money.
Do with it what you please,
But if you are unhappy with what you buy,
I do not expect to see you complaning.
Where as I on the other hand Will Be saying things like,
I told you so,

I really do hope the xp is as Great as every 1 hopes,
In fact i hope its as great as I wish it to be "that would not be perfect"



---------------------------
ShambleS

Totally agree with you mate, don't want it? don't buy it. IMO the xp IS going to be great because it is going to add alot of new stuff to an already great game, and rome IS great, c'mon, what other game could you be part of a cataphract unit of 108 men charging 1000 peasants, routing them in a flash and mopping them all up with you lances. Sure the game has bugs, but what game hasnt? the whole point of R:TW is to look good, to look better than any other strategy game out there and I personally think it suceeded

[Quietus]

Ea not wanting the game And now sega being rumorerd to take over from activision,
And the fact that CA are being tossed around like a proverbial hot potato

Actually, CA switched to Activision from EA, not the other way around. Same way CA negotiated to be bought by SEGA.

[Shambles]

Actually, CA switched to Activision from EA, not the other way around. Same way CA negotiated to be bought by SEGA.

Thank you very much,

I stand corrected,

ShambleS

[Spartiate]

I'm not sure why guys............but i'm just dying for a hot potato with fresh butter and maybe some coleslaw...............yes..........coleslaw............mmm

[hotingzilla]

I don't agree that the products from CA are unfinished. But I understand when you feel you have wasted your hard-earned money on something that isn't what you expected.

However, the developers cannot truly make a game perfect and free of bugs. It is simply impossible.

[lars573]

Also speaking pure in from a fiscal stand point, there is a time when patching a game is not worth it any more. CA obviously limits the time and resources they are willing to commit to their games.

[Bhruic]

However, the developers cannot truly make a game perfect and free of bugs. It is simply impossible.

I see this statement a lot, but find it to be a bit of a strawman. I don't think anyone is suggesting that one can make a perfect, bug-free game. There are degrees of completeness, however, that can be used to measure how close the game is to the mythical mark.

Take Dungeon Lords for example. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the game, but a quick google will likely lead you to some reviews. The game was released in such an unpolished state that it's a wonder it actually is being sold. The game is an RPG, so these days, one would expect a large 'immersion' factor. But it's lacking in that regard. Inns without furniture. Towns with 6 or 7 people. It's just not well done.

Now, if I were to make the statement above about this game, what would I accomplish? Would the fact that one can't make a perfect, bug-free game excuse the fact that Dungeon Lords is riddled with bugs, and is completely lacking in immersion? Would it put the game into the same category as RTW?

I'd say not, and I'd hope you would as well. The completeness of a game is a sliding scale. Some games are more complete, some are less. I personally think that RTW isn't as far along as it should have been, but it's certainly farther along than Dungeon Lords. You may think it's far enough along, which is fine. That's where subjective opinion enters in. But trying to excuse the game using the "it can't be perfect" line isn't going to render your opinion accurate, or make mine inaccurate.

Bh

[professorspatula]

There are a few things mentioned in the expansion pack that appeals to me, although some of the 'new features' look like they were left out of the actual game before its release: night battles, shield walls, hordes etc. There's either text references to them, or sound files already. Leave stuff out, claim it's new and brown-nosing games journalists will drool all over the features in one of their 'exclusive and not at all biased previews'.

What annoys me, and many others it seems is the way CA seem to nonchalantly brush aside many of the concerns and criticisms of RTW as if they were completely unimportant or impossible to implement in the engine. Bah. If battle speeds and morale haven't been given an overhaul (and it sounds like they haven't), it's going to be several hours/days of modding just to make the expansion playable.

I'll really be annoyed if siege battles haven't received a massive reworking though. Nine out of ten battles aren't worth the effort to play.

I suppose no-one expects miracles from just an expansion pack, but with enough nods in the right direction, I reckon it's worth a purchase. That is providing of course, that it is priced reasonably. The recent expansion pack for Doom 3 was a ridiculous price - practically the price of a brand new game, and all it adds is more of the same. If BI is priced similiarly, think I'll shove a couple of fingers up in the publisher's direction and spend the money on booze instead.

Pint anyone?

[hotingzilla]

I'd say not, and I'd hope you would as well. The completeness of a game is a sliding scale. Some games are more complete, some are less. I personally think that RTW isn't as far along as it should have been, but it's certainly farther along than Dungeon Lords. You may think it's far enough along, which is fine. That's where subjective opinion enters in. But trying to excuse the game using the "it can't be perfect" line isn't going to render your opinion accurate, or make mine inaccurate.

Bh

I understand what you mean, and it is crucial to have people criticizing the games and always asking for more, it urges the developers to raise the par and input more effort into the game.

However, if the expak comes out just as you expect now, would you boycott the expack and radically all of CA's products?