Napoleonic War mod - i had a dream

[Shov]

I keep having this recurring dream. Some people say its sad and pathetic to dream about games but to them I say - ive got a hot girlfriend, so I balance it out :-D

Anyway, I love Shogun Total War, however having played and completed the game, and taken every detail in - I really feel that there is great potential for other projects that could be much more spectacular.

I want to keep this as short as I can, and hopefully create some sort of interest, but my dream is as follows:

I see tens of thousands of French soldiers, in all their glorious Napoleonic splendour marching over a hill. As they appear at the top and begin marching into the valley below, they see the armies of the Russian Empire waiting for them. Cannon, Men and horses in perfect formation.

I see smoke, I see explosions, I see musket fire on an epic scale! The Napoleonic Wars are famous for their huge ferocious battles, and the splendour of the uniforms. The thought of Shogun Total War carnage applied to the uniforms of the time makes me cream my pants!

Subtle changes to the game code oculd be made. The graphics engine is already superb, perhaps a little more coding to help it cope with thousands more men - I just hope someone else reading this can picture what Im trying to say here!

Imagine cannon fire! Imagine seing ranks of men fall, fight and march across the vast battlefields.

And thats just the battles - what a spectacular campaign mode this could have. Britain, France, Austria, Prussia and Russia all with their own Alliances and battles going on....my god! Instead of Seasons, why not have months? Instead of Yari Samauri, why not local musket militia?

Please let me know if you are interested in my dream! I simply cannot do it justice in this message board - but I think there is a severe lack of games that focus on one of the most impressive wars of all time...and I want to lead thousands of spectacularly detailed troops into the enemy cannon....

[ney]

yes, Yes, YES!!!

You are so correct Shov! I am so impressed with the battle engine of this game and it would work so beautifully for the Napoleonic period.

I say skip the Roman or Medieval ideas and go straight to this wonderful era.

ney

[Shiro]

Ahh...good luck. Mods ideas have been floated around, but nothing ever came of it.

[barocca]

I'm not going to bore everybody with why this would be boring!
Those who've seen these napoleon style threads come and go on the official forum will know what I mean.

Tech speaking,
Shogun currently allows up 15,000 men on the field at once:-
and laaaaaaaags like you wouldn't believe!

I'm not going to work from the minmum specs -the game is almost unplayable on minimum specs!

So, I have a P2-366, 128Mb ram, 32Mb video.
It can handle around 3000 men on the field with minmal lag.

Wagram had 340,000 men on the field,
a multiplication factor of 113!

meaning I'd a processor speed of 40Ghz.
and over 12 Gb of ram.

With 3,000 men on the field Shogun pushes a 56,000kbps(7KB)modem pretty hard.
You'd need a modem capable of 100 times that!
Do they make 5,600,000kbps(700KB) modems?

Shogun at 3000 men uses about 12Meg of my Video Ram,
So I'd need a graphics card with over 1Gig of Video Ram.

Your Log files would be as much as 12Meg,

All this tech would be required to play the battle of Wagram 340,000 men!

Technologically, the Napoleonic mod for the Shogun Engine is out of reach!

And who would want to play napoleonic skirmishes?
No grand scale, no epic battles...

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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon

[Shov]

damn - thats a kick in the face

[ney]

So our shogun battles are really just skirmishes. How big were the armies that fought in these Shogun wars?

ney

[Supra]

you dont know how bad I want to see something like that. I want ARTILLERY!!!!

Nopolianic Wars would be great. But I like to see battles found on American Soil! Revolutionary War (inspired by The Patriot) and the Civil War.

OMG, I would really be addicted then..

[ney]

That's a supra idea!

[smeegol]

Well don't get too depressed about this MOD stuff...
The MONGOL INVASION expansion pack is coming out soon. From the latest interview I read saying its coming out next month. I expecting it within the next 2-3 months than because it'll probly get delayed.
But back to my point... it will include a scenarior and map editor. This will make map editoring a WHOLE LOT easier. I don't know how new units will be made and stuff like that though... we can only hope that with the new editing tools they will have some support for mod making. If they don't... they can always release a patch or two . I suggest we all start suggesting that NOW. So pelase everyone who wants Shogun MODS start suggesting that to the guys making this game!

[Zeek1 Akayama]

Shov I second that! This would be really nice but it will also mean that my wife will leave me and I will loose my job because I would be too engrossed in the game...!

How about a Roman legion clashing with war elephants and African heavy infantry..! Or Celts charging the battle fields! Or Sarmatian heavy cavalry charging Greek peltasts...! Greek, Romans, Medieval, Chinese civil war *Romance of the three kingdoms* using the eloquent shogun battle engine and graphic what a concept..! Nonetheless I strongly endorse your dream and the possibility are endless....! Let's hope the folks who make it are up to it...!


Fight them bitterly... Bitterly fight them oh compatriots...!
-Nasser 1956.

Li Yahya Filasteen, Wa Tahya Filasteen
(Palestine lives) (Palestine will live)

[cuirassier]

Not so fast my friend!

Let me first introduce myself.
I am a die-hard Napoleonic enthusiast and won't be offended if you brand me as a Grognard! I have been reading about Napoleonic battles and been playing various computer simulated versions with almost religious fervour. I have played TalonSoft's BattleGround series (turn-based, too slow, but still could be fun if you have the time and the patience!). Am eagerly awaiting for the real time Waterloo game from Breakaway Games. (www.breakawaygames.com)

Anyway, ever since I bought Shogun Total War (STOW), I could not help but dream what a blast it would be to play some of the Little Corporal's epic battles on the Shogun Engine!

Now that this issue has been aired on this forum, here is my two cents worth.


Let's take the epic battle of Waterloo and try to calculate roughly the number of sprites needed to simulate the French,British and the Prussian armies.

(Note : All unit strengths quoted below are ball-park figures. I have taken the order of battle right off the top of my head. So
please bear with me if they are slightly off the mark.)

The most basic unit of the Napoleonic army was the infantry batallion that consisted of 600 men. A regiment normally had 2 batallions.
Two regiments were brigaded together under a general of brigade. Two brigades normally constituted a divison.


There is no way we could have one sprite per soldier. I did the math and it is simply not going to fly.

But, say, if we choose to represent a 1200 man regiment by 10 sprites and do the math.

French Infantry:

Reille's Corps
**************
Division Bonaparte - 4 regiments
Division Foy - 4 regiments


Count D'Erlon's Corps
**************
Division Quiot - 4 regiments
Division Danzelot - 4 regiments
Division Marcognet - 4 regiments
Division Durette - 4 regiments

Lobau's Corps
**************
Division Jeannin - 4 regiments
Division Simmer - 4 regiments

Guard Corps
**************
Say 6 Regiments


Total 38 regiments

Say 10 sprites per regiment => 380 sprites for the whole French infantry.

French Cavalry
**************

Pire's Light Horse - 4 regiments
Milhaud's Heavy Horse - 8 regiments
Kellermann's Heavy Horse - 8 regiments
Domon's Light Horse - 4 regiments
Subervie's Light Horse - 4 regiments

Guard Light Horse - 2 regiments
Guard Heavy Horse - 2 regiments

Total - 32 regiments

Say 10 sprites per regiment.

=> 320 sprites for the whole French cavalry.

Napoleon had around 220 guns. Say 6 guns constitute an artillery battery. This gives us 36 batteries.

Say 2 sprites per battery

=> 72 sprites for the whole French artillery.

Say another 50 sprites for leader figures like Napoleon, Ney, D'Erlon, Kellermann etc.

This gives us 380+320+72+50 = 822 sprites for the whole French Army.


Let's use a nice, round figure of 1000 sprites for the whole French Army.

Say 1000 again for the Anglo-Dutch-German allied army.

Let's give old Blucher (the Prussian Army) another 1000 sprites.

This makes a grand total of 3000 sprites, that does not look so daunting after all!

I would invite some contructive criticism on this line of thought.

Best Regards,

Cuirassier

Total

[Catiline]

I see a few problems here, and somethings that'd make it easier. Firstly of course Most british regiments didn't have both battalions on service abroard, so that halves the numbers, plus many/ most were under strength, how the French worked I don't know. However, 10 men a battalion? Not going to look like much is it, you've got all Napoleons troops represented by 6 or 7 units of teppo. SCARY. And two sprites for an artillery battery. It'd look rubbish. Don't get me wrong I agree it's a god idea, but you've over reduced it. A lot of the games straight off appeal is in the eye candy, and what you propose oesn't give that, plus the fact that a two sprite battery is going to be easily destroyed. It's be all or nothing, one hit from an enemy gun and the whole battery, or the whole regiment if that's only got 10 men, would be destroyed. You need the scale to make the game what it is. In a few years with bigger maps maybe it'll work, you could have the regiments on a reasonable 1:10 ratio and the extra number's of units shouldn't be a problem, a fast machine will handle high unit numbers 2v2 battles now, where the figures are, what, half of the number of units you vpropose, but as Barocca says it lags.

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It's not a bug, it's a feature

[Kraellin]

you guys have WAY too much time on your hands :)

K.

[Alastair]

Notice how cuirassier said SPRITES per battalion, not SOLDIERS.

[Tone]

If you can find a programme that opens the .BIF files in STW then you will no doubt find people to make mods.

[War Writer]

I would love to have a came based in the Naplonic Wars!

One game in which I would recomend is FOG: Fields of Glory. Yes, it might be old, but it's the only Napolonic game I've ever owned.

[Kurando]

There is a new game just released on friday which is bassed on the Gettysburg engine: Waterloo.

It has been fairly well reviewed so far + there is a demo out also.

[Whitey]

Shov:

thats a great Idea Pete - maybe CA will do it next - I mean, Napoleon (or Emperor?): Total War does have just as much a ring to it as Ceaser: Total War, what name do you play with online pete???

Curassier:

Waterloo is out now, if you want the boards they are at
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~waterloo...i?action=intro


or the website http://www.strategyplanet.com/waterloo/

but before we do that, I think the EU mod is 'more' pressing

[War Writer]

That games looks pretty arful to me people!

[Whitey]

Eye candy is all well amd good - but solid gameplay makes games worthwhile

[jxm96c]

I would really like to see Three Kingdoms Fate of the Dragon powered by Shogun's engine, it would be such a great combination as I'm totally addicted to FOD nowadays as well as STW of course. :-) The characters and the stories of that period of Chinese history are simply fascinating and I would see this as a very good potential for a mod, considering FOD is ranked 8th on the UK game chart... if the STW mod of FOD goes well it could easily go commercial like Counter Strike for Half Life. :-p

[maroberts]

I don't think a full scale Napoleonic war would work due to the fact the sheer scale and numbers of men were immense.

However I'm sure there were lots of small scale skirmishes in the Napoleonic wars, and it would also be perhaps possible to have a sort of "sectored" battle, where instead of taking over the whole of Japan, the strategy map was let us say, Waterloo or Borodino.

You could also possibly model of the small scale battles from out of the 'main event' e.g the one round La Haye Saint farm.