The Roman Conquest

[Danest]

I was wondering about something. Let's assume (gasp) first of all that the AI is everything it should be in comeptance and realism. If all the factions were controlled by the computer (no human player), would the Romans still be able to conquer the world? I have no way of knowing of course since I haven't seen the stats or gameplay of EB (though of course it looks great). But I must say those factions sure do look fierce. In other words, do/will the Roman soldiers have a real statistical advantage? I know in a few mods, such as Roma mod, it sure didn't feel like I was playing the mighty Roman empire, so I guess I'm also just getting curious about my own favorite, the Romans. :)

[jerby]

well, the pre-marian units were not remarkably superior. its not until the marian reform that they gain their superiority. still not statistically. romans wons much due to their flexibility. and failure on teh other side.
the great greek empires seen in the previews were crumbled to bits before the roman army came to them. I'm not saying rome accidentaly conquered the world. but rome wasnt a superpower from teh start.
so statistically i predict that rome's elite unit (seen so far) the preatorians will be equal in stats to the torikatai argyraspidai of teh seleucids. or the Spartan Hoplitai. just guessing here, i'm NOT an EB member

[Lord Tomyris Reloaded]

Praetorians cannot be as good as the Spartans, no way. I'd say the best unit of the Romans will probably be the rank and file post-Marian cohorts.

[Ranika]

You're neglecting that the Romans didn't just have the legionarres, but also loads of auxilia, and regional allies. When the Romans invaded Britain for the second time, auxilia and allied British tribes did the majority of actual fighting. The auxilia and allies, supported by the Romans, was what allowed the Romans to conquer; it wasn't individual superiority of any one troop, but tactical flexibility brought on by using soldiers from a huge number of regions, and utilization of allies who already knew how to fight certain enemies. Blindly hurling legionarres at an enemy will not, and should not, be a viable path to victory. It's simply not how it happened.

[bodidley]

How are the early legionary units in EB by the way, Ranika? In RTW Vanilla they already have significant equipment changes from the pre-Marian troops.

I have to agree that Rome's conquest of Europe was not always in the cards. There were plenty of times when Rome's fledgling empire was almost destroyed by foreign competitors (the Punic Wars, for example) and several of the Roman conquests hinged on luck as well as skill. The Roman conquest of Gaul is a perfect example. An extroadinary and ambitious Roman general happened to be there when the Gauls were fighting amongst themselves, and facing Suebi invasion, and he got an exuse to invade because of the migration of the Helvitii. Even then it took him eight years to conquer Gaul, and it was no sure thing.

That's not even to mention the fact if the Romans are bound to win in the game, it devastates replayability.

[Ranika]

The legionarres are good; they were very well trained, disciplined soldiers. However, you will not be able to raise hordes of them to rampage across Europe with. You will need to support them, with allies, and plenty of auxilia (which will be quite varied and offer a lot of options, giving the Romans excuses to conquer whole regions, just to produce auxilia that might aide in conquering elsewhere). Other factions have units that, in single combat, will handily trounce legionarres; real war isn't about single units, it's about how you support those units. A well supported milita would do better sometimes than unsupported elites.

The Romans will have access to allies and auxilia from pretty much anywhere they conquer. This allows them substantial flexibility; the legionarres are better than their pre-Marian counterparts, but we have a statistics system that helps to realistically determine strengths and weaknesses. The Romans are subject to the same system; this doesn't mean they'll be weak, but on equal footing, statistically speaking. However, their unit selection is where they'll have strength. We hope for realistic expansion, but there will be no set path. Any faction, used appropriately, can win, but there are also matters of luck, internal, and external problems. It's not just a matter of who's units have the best stats, but who can make best use of what they have.