The Roman Conquest

[Dux Corvanus]

These "happy fishermen" handed every Spanish their asses for 800 years.

Ehem... that thing about you 'handing' my ass... you should keep that in private, darling...



And...

Toro, 1476
Alcántara, 1580
Açores, 1582
Montijo, 1644

Not to count the numberless occasions that Portugal had his ass saved by their English godfathers...

But, yes, the truth is that we have won some battles and lost others but... we've lost every war.

But, hey... WE STILL HAVE THE BIG SIDE! (and it's the RIGHT one... for yours is the left one...)



NOTE: Eucarionte, you can't accuse people of being fishermen... when practicing trolling...

[Sarcasm]

In effect, what I'm saying is that the entire notion that Rome, or any people are just "better" then another is stupid. There are extenutating circumstances, political/economic landscapes, tactical decisions and realities and yes, even luck that determines who is in power, when, and how. There are pros and cons to every military formation, nothing is an "end all beat all" way of doing things, its all a matter of how the cards are played.

Exactly. My intention was not to make the romans seem inferior, rather make other peoples equal to them, in some respects.

All the mistakes? I only had one. And that Sarcasm thing got another one (read more about Spartans mate). Not bad for one "future" businessman vs. two happy, fishermen historians.

Funny you call me a fishermen when Spain has the largest fishing fleet in the EU, almost as large as the chinese one. And I advise to get a clue about ancient warfare and its *evolution*. I'm no expert but then again I didn't call a falcata, a Dacian weapon, either.

Do you really want to turn this into some kind of stupid ethnical discussion? I think bodidley got it right, really

Not only did I have no intention of going there, I didn't, when I refered to your nationality I was refering to your amazing theory that because you're Spanish, you know more than Aymar or Shigawire.

Plainly pathetic. Just as your pride of being Portuguese. What I´m proud of, is precisely that you are another nation, believe me.

And now this childish discussion ends.

HAHAHAHAHAHA........*snif*...oh...geeeeee...you crack me up man...want me to quote you on "stupid ethnical discussion"? What about "childish" comments?

I still had something to say....what was that.....hmmmm.....



....oh yeah!

"You, Sir, are an idiot."

Toro, 1476
Alcántara, 1580
Açores, 1582
Montijo, 1644

Not to count the numberless occasions that Portugal had his ass saved by their English godfathers...

Oh c'mon Dux, you know better than that....the only real victory there was Montijo. And if I recall correctly, Toro was a tie, the Castillans were winning but left the field after the Prince João's squadron appeared over the hill. nothing came out of that battle. Peace was signed almost immediately.

[bodidley]

Do you really want to turn this into some kind of stupid ethnical discussion? I think bodidley got it right, really

Plainly pathetic. Just as your pride of being Portuguese. What I´m proud of, is precisely that you are another nation, believe me.

And now this childish discussion ends.

You should learn to play nice too...crazy peninsulare :~p

[khelvan]

I find it amusing that any reference to these neighboring nations causes such strong feelings.

However, no flame wars will be allowed here.

[Dux Corvanus]

And if I recall correctly, Toro was a tie, the Castillans were winning but left the field after the Prince João's squadron appeared over the hill. nothing came out of that battle. Peace was signed almost immediately.

You recall very wrongly... because it was Prince Joao who fled back to Portugal, while his father the King Alfonso ran to shelter behind the walls of Toro...

From a 'neutral' (English) web page:

In the afternoon of March 1st, 1476, the Portuguese forces clashed with the Castilian forces under don Fernando at Peleagonzalo, a small town between Toro and Zamora, in a plane next to the river Duero.

The Spanish forces numbered around 30,000 and the Portuguese around 40,000. After several hours of battle, from about noon until sun down, the Portuguese divided their forces. Alfonso V fled, seeking the safety of the city walls of Toro with his men. His son and what was left of his forces retreated towards the Portuguese border. As the Portuguese moved through the Sayago area, as many as 350 Portuguese soldiers were captured by the local defensive militia and were castrated before they were allowed to continue moving back towards Portugal. That was pay back for the way they behave on their way into Spain. Queen Isabel chastised her husband and her soldiers for not pursuing and fighting the Portuguese until they were completely destroyed. According to tradition, one of the church officials commented that Isabel wore her pants better than the men! She had even suffered a miscarriage while riding from town to town raising money and volunteers for her army.

Three months later, King Alfonso V retreated towards Oporto. The military invasion of Castile had failed. Isabel and Fernando had won the war. The towns and villages of along the Duero, on the other hand, were left under populated by the thousands of casualties of the war and the economic damage of the plundering armies. Executions of those who had supported the Portuguese were common.

Haaa! It seems we also know how to keep our independence... And yes, Alfonso V was willing to sign the peace... to avoid further ass-kicking... and nothing came out of the battle: He was not king of Castile.

And don't worry, Khel. These are 'lovers fights'... We are joined by our 'love' to Napoleon and other common friends...

[Sarcasm]

Well, I'm getting contradictory results on this:

As far as I can tell the battle happened like this....

The Portuguese forces were sieging the town of Zamora after having taken a bunch of small towns including Toro. The Castillan army was assembled, and marched to lift the siege over the town...and battle ocurred near the town of Toro.

The castillan army was organized in 4 great divisions and were superior in number to the Portuguese forces present *at that time*. They proceded to attack and drive the portuguese center back, even taking the Royal standart, but lost it once more after a counter-attack. The Portuguese were driven slowly driven back, and in fact Afonso's army was only saved by the timely arrival of Prince João's corps who drove away both of Fernando's divisions. Then the entire Castillan army retreated (in good order) leaving the field to the Portuguese, who after suffering large losses, could no longer continue the campaign, effectively assuring the throne to Isabella.

The treaty recognized the crown of Isabella, but allowed Portuguese navigation south of the Canárias, opening the door to large-scale Portuguese expansion.

So, while the battle was a Minor Tactical Victory for the Portuguese it turned out to be a Major Strategic victory for the Castillans. What I meant by "nothing came out of it" was that status quo was reestablished. The war was a definite victory for the Castillans of course.

*There's also a famous story about the decepado, D.Duarte de Almeida which had both his hands chopped off, while trying to hold on to the standart, and being stabbed almost to death, while still holding it with it's teeth, eventually loosing it after passing out. The counter-attack successfuly allowed Gonçalo Pires to recapture it and they are both praised by Castillan sources. D.Duarte was taken captive and sent to a monastic hospital in Castille, returning home after peace was signed. His armour is still in Spain, today , and is now the only known example of Portuguese 15th century plate.

And don't worry, Khel. These are 'lovers fights'... We are joined by our 'love' to Napoleon and other common friends...

I like to discuss such matters. Even if we disagree. That guy was getting on my nerves, not because he was Spanish (Dux is Spanish and that doesn't keep me from having gang shower fantasies about him ), it's because he's an arrogant, know-it-all, antagonistic idiot. Who just happens to be Spanish.

[khelvan]

...it's because he's an arrogant, know-it-all, antagonistic...

I thought you were talking about everyone from the Iberian peninsula, for a moment!

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Ehem... that thing about you 'handing' my ass... you should keep that in private, darling...

LOL

And...

Toro, 1476
Alcántara, 1580
Açores, 1582
Montijo, 1644

But, yes, the truth is that we have won some battles and lost others but... we've lost every war.

True. You've won battles. I did not said you didn't. Although it sounded a bit one sided due to irritation.

Not to count the numberless occasions that Portugal had his ass saved by their English godfathers...

And the inumerous times they've tricked us invoking false reasons...

But, hey... WE STILL HAVE THE BIG SIDE! (and it's the RIGHT one... for yours is the left one...)

Well, we didn't wanted it for anything. To damn dry...

[Eucarionte]

You just can´t quit it, can you? What I won´t tolerate is a nerd continuously insulting me in some weird topic. Nevertheless, this is my LAST post on this topic, no matter what you say after it. Now, let´s get Sarcastic for a moment, shall we?

"idiot". I find very amusing your strange likeliness with this word, since you apparently like to write it again and again. Have you ever considered to work as a clown? I see you´ve got natural aptitudes, you could make lotsa money! I can´t help but imagining you randomly repeating this word in your funny accent. Thank you for giving me such a good time during my exams season


"HAHAHAHAHAHA........*snif*...oh...geeeeee..."

Bravo! you got it! That´s exactly what I mean about childish behaviour! Next lesson: How to walk and chew bubble gum at the same time.

But you know what´s REALLY fun about this? That you´re working for me. And for free. All the effort, the headaches and the stress you´re putting on this mod, and all for me. Guess what? Next time I go to Portugal, I´ll drop 2 or 3 cents (that´ll be enough considering your economy) near your caves, so you can buy something to eat (but please don´t touch me, not even to show gratitude). You truly deserve it.

[Sarcasm]

All the effort, the headaches and the stress you´re putting on this mod, and all for me.

As always, you think too highly of yourself, and not enough of others.

Let me just say that one more time...

"You, Sir, are an idiot."

[Dux Corvanus]

Eucarionte, kid, you're disgracing us... You have no right to insult several million people for your personal troubles with one or two. That gives your quality as a member of a civilized society. You seriously need to travel more. Good luck on your exams. You haven't passed this one, tho.

[deguerra]

Eucarionte please do stick to what you said and cease posting...youre an embarrasment to the thread

[Shigawire]

He is a disgrace to his own people. Puts the Spaniards in a bad light.

[Dux Corvanus]

He is a disgrace to his own people. Puts the Spaniards in a bad light.

In fact, soft lights make us much more attractive.

[Sarcasm]

What about locker room light?

[Shigawire]

Oh, I don't know about the Spanish really... but the Dutch! They have redlights, so they don't need any sort of consolidation!