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Thread: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

  1. #31
    Member Member Taohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    How much recovery time between each set? No more than 30 seconds?

    Edit:
    One more thing: the exercises should be done in the order given, correct? That is, one shouldn't do one set of push-ups, do one set of sit-ups (or crunches?), and then go back to push-ups. Also, for weeks 1 through 4 and 7, is it all right to do some weightlifting on the off days (Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, with Sunday as a break)?

    Thanks
    Last edited by Taohn; 06-08-2005 at 19:33.
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  2. #32
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Taohn
    How much recovery time between each set? No more than 30 seconds?
    The recovery time should be enough to be able to do the next set, but no more than 3 minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taohn
    Edit:
    One more thing: the exercises should be done in the order given, correct? That is, one shouldn't do one set of push-ups, do one set of sit-ups (or crunches?), and then go back to push-ups. Also, for weeks 1 through 4 and 7, is it all right to do some weightlifting on the off days (Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, with Sunday as a break)?

    Thanks
    Not necessarily, you could do a set of pushups and then do a set of crunches as long as you dont do 2 cosecutive sets of exercises that work the same muscles.

    It is ok to do some weightlifting, but tou wont put on much muscle and your perofrmance will be worse if you are not letting the muscle recover after the effort. Specially if you are doing heavy weights, you should rest your muscles for at least a day in between weight sessions.

    Either way I dont recommend starting to do weights if your bodyweight is not something you can handle.

    Cheers
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  3. #33

    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Taohn
    Also, for weeks 1 through 4 and 7, is it all right to do some weightlifting on the off days (Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, with Sunday as a break)?

    Thanks
    The program outlined was an endurance/cardiovascular routine, I seriously doubt you could gain much muscle by working the off days. You're going to have to focus on one or the other.

  4. #34
    Member Member Taohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Seeing as it's a Wednesday, I decided to give it a go. I could only manage 2.5 sets of push-ups before stating to take breaks longer than a minute and had to walk a bit during the run (it's quite hot today). Feels quite good after having some water, a shower, and that piece of jam bread.

    About that weightlifting, I was referring more to high rep, low weight exercises so as to develop more muscular endurance and also to target areas like the forearms, calves, and maybe the shoulders and trapezius. It would be more for toning than anything else, except for the forearms, which could probably handle some more specific, heavier exercises since they don't get worked on very often. Basically, as long as it's not heavy/too prolonged it should be okay?

    One last question about a couple of the exercises. Should the pull-ups be underhand, so as to stress the biceps more, or overhand? With the squats, I've read that one shouldn't lower the thighs past a level parallel with the floor when doing weighted squats. Does this carry over to unweighted squats?
    It's pay day tomorrow. Gonna buy me some bootlaces...and green beans.

  5. #35
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Taohn
    Seeing as it's a Wednesday, I decided to give it a go. I could only manage 2.5 sets of push-ups before stating to take breaks longer than a minute and had to walk a bit during the run (it's quite hot today). Feels quite good after having some water, a shower, and that piece of jam bread.

    About that weightlifting, I was referring more to high rep, low weight exercises so as to develop more muscular endurance and also to target areas like the forearms, calves, and maybe the shoulders and trapezius. It would be more for toning than anything else, except for the forearms, which could probably handle some more specific, heavier exercises since they don't get worked on very often. Basically, as long as it's not heavy/too prolonged it should be okay?
    Yup, the program is good, Im doing it myself.
    To train your forearms the best exercise Ive seen is tie a weight to the end of a rope. tie the rome to the center of a bar you could hold with both hands. Now turn the bar so as to pull the rope and get it all wrapped around the bar and then in the opposite direction.

    If you want to focus more on your shoulders and traps (and you dont have enough with nose-to-the-floor pushups) you can do handstand pushups. If you manage 10 you get a virtual cookie. Do them with a wall to support your handstand or a partner to hold your legs.

    See, low-weight high-high rep training tends to be boring and not really useful as you are handling your bodyweight (which is usually heavier than your light weights) and doing high reps anyway. Of course if you want to do it just for tone, there is nothing wrong with it and it wont hurt you, but then I recomment eating more protein and vitamin C so that your muscles repair quicker. Also eat lots of bananas. Bananas are HARDCORE

    Quote Originally Posted by Taohn
    One last question about a couple of the exercises. Should the pull-ups be underhand, so as to stress the biceps more, or overhand? With the squats, I've read that one shouldn't lower the thighs past a level parallel with the floor when doing weighted squats. Does this carry over to unweighted squats?
    You can do a set of underhand pullups and then a set of overhand ones, depending on what you want to focus on. I tend to do them overhand.

    Thats not really important unless you are talking really heavy weight and your knee is weak (which tends to happen to bodybuilders) as you get more "push" the straighter your leg is. Do the squats until you sit on your heels. If you want to grab a free weight to add to entertainment you can too. You can do variations of squats as well, if you want some more explosivity, jump a few inches off the ground with every squat and you´ll notice the difference.

    The program outlined was an endurance/cardiovascular routine, I seriously doubt you could gain much muscle by working the off days. You're going to have to focus on one or the other.
    Not necessarily. You can do both if you want to. Usually athletes dont do both at the same time because if they are training to put on muscle they do it as fast as possible and then go through a cutting period to minimize fat. It is impossible to put on serious muscle without eating a LOT and that means putting on some fat too.
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  6. #36

    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Taohn
    About that weightlifting, I was referring more to high rep, low weight exercises so as to develop more muscular endurance and also to target areas like the forearms, calves, and maybe the shoulders and trapezius. It would be more for toning than anything else,
    Well for toning you need heavy weight low reps, like 10x3 with 90% of your 1RM, if by toning you mean increasing resting muscle tension.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taohn
    With the squats, I've read that one shouldn't lower the thighs past a level parallel with the floor when doing weighted squats. Does this carry over to unweighted squats?
    Squat to parallel is the powerlifting squat, squat all the way down is Olympic squat, like so:



    The olympic squat is better. Powerlifters only squat to parallel because that is used in competition to determine completion of squat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmaster
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
    The program outlined was an endurance/cardiovascular routine, I seriously doubt you could gain much muscle by working the off days. You're going to have to focus on one or the other.

    Not necessarily. You can do both if you want to. Usually athletes dont do both at the same time because if they are training to put on muscle they do it as fast as possible and then go through a cutting period to minimize fat. It is impossible to put on serious muscle without eating a LOT and that means putting on some fat too.
    I did both at once when I was doing crew, and gained mass at about a sixth the rate I am now in summertime. You burn to many calories with the endurance cardio to gain much mass, and the weights make you tired when you're donig the endurance cardio. Much more efficient to do one at a time.
    Last edited by Sasaki Kojiro; 06-11-2005 at 02:55.

  7. #37
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    I did both at once when I was doing crew, and gained mass at about a sixth the rate I am now in summertime. You burn to many calories with the endurance cardio to gain much mass, and the weights make you tired when you're donig the endurance cardio. Much more efficient to do one at a time.

    Thats the thing, its hard to find a balance, so you would just bulk for a month and then cut for a month. It is inevitable putting on fat while bulking anyway.
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  8. #38
    Viceroy of the Indian Empire Member Duke Malcolm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    What an interesting method... I might just try it, if I can find the ability to do push ups... the 2 mile run isn't too bad, though, and the good breakfast is also tempting...
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  9. #39
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    I do something very similar anyways...so I am not particularly worried. I am also very low body weight and trying to gain muscle slowly and without the 6 meals a day advised for professional bodybuilders.

    I am resting at the moment due to cripping my knee in a friendly game of rugby.

    but my usual routine centres around strength and speed as my cardio is ok so you know, focus on your weaknesses

    3x50 bomber boy press ups
    1x100 normal press ups off bars,
    2x100 'frog' press ups, (for shoulders)
    4x50 'hindu' squats
    2x10 burpees
    1x10 clapping press ups
    5x8 pull ups and one set of 10 at the start

    I will do all of this with 30 seconds break between sets...and afterwards I feel royally crap. I of course indulge in a heart breakfast and my cardio is quite limited but there was a paper out that said that cardio can be improved by small spurts of hardcore spriting and hill running

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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by ah_dut
    I do something very similar anyways...so I am not particularly worried. I am also very low body weight and trying to gain muscle slowly and without the 6 meals a day advised for professional bodybuilders.

    I am resting at the moment due to cripping my knee in a friendly game of rugby.

    but my usual routine centres around strength and speed as my cardio is ok so you know, focus on your weaknesses

    3x50 bomber boy press ups
    1x100 normal press ups off bars,
    2x100 'frog' press ups, (for shoulders)
    4x50 'hindu' squats
    2x10 burpees
    1x10 clapping press ups
    5x8 pull ups and one set of 10 at the start

    I will do all of this with 30 seconds break between sets...and afterwards I feel royally crap. I of course indulge in a heart breakfast and my cardio is quite limited but there was a paper out that said that cardio can be improved by small spurts of hardcore spriting and hill running

    Not bad. I´ve also read something about the high intensity training thinghy, but I´m waiting to see it confirmed by some other sources before changing my routine dramatically.
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  11. #41
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
    Not bad. I´ve also read something about the high intensity training thinghy, but I´m waiting to see it confirmed by some other sources before changing my routine dramatically.
    I have read a few articles...not completely sure about the high intensity thing either. But I don't really have time as a schoolboy to do hours of roadwork, I can't do work in the mornings and I need my 9 hours of sleep or I feel seriously ill. Some rugby and rowing team people do far more than me but you know, they're fitter so they recover faster. I only started doing this kind of thing a few months ago it was jokes, I couldn't even do 30 press ups...

    What an interesting method... I might just try it, if I can find the ability to do push ups... the 2 mile run isn't too bad, though, and the good breakfast is also tempting...
    Malcolm, I am not joking when I tell you that 8 weeks of press ups every day, say 3-4 sets to failure will result in a 3-5 fold improvement. I mean I was starting at 25-30 press ups before falling flat on my face, now I am over 120 It's amazing feeling like this you know? It takes a little bit of work and determination. I have been physically crap at most things for the whole of my life of 14 years anyways...you're at an age where you can improve really quickly

  12. #42
    Member Member Kongamato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Is it normal to feel a sort of soreness not unlike a shin splint in the sternum after a weightlifting session, or is this an indicator of bad exercise form?

    Are plyometric exercises a worthy pursuit, or should they be ignored?
    "Never in physical action had I discovered the chilling satisfaction of words. Never in words had I experienced the hot darkness of action. Somewhere there must be a higher principle which reconciles art and action. That principle, it occurred to me, was death." -Yukio Mishima

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Well, AFAIK some soreness is a fact of working out.
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  14. #44
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Kongamato
    Is it normal to feel a sort of soreness not unlike a shin splint in the sternum after a weightlifting session, or is this an indicator of bad exercise form?

    Are plyometric exercises a worthy pursuit, or should they be ignored?
    Pain is a perfectly normal part of weights...especially if you do a lot of dips etc...

    Plyometrics is great. If you can do one rep, you can build on it can't you? it will really make a difference, but so will most excercises if you pursue them with dedication

  15. #45
    Member Member Kongamato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    I understand the pain and muscle soreness. What I'm feeling seems more like bone stress.
    "Never in physical action had I discovered the chilling satisfaction of words. Never in words had I experienced the hot darkness of action. Somewhere there must be a higher principle which reconciles art and action. That principle, it occurred to me, was death." -Yukio Mishima

  16. #46

    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Kongamato
    Is it normal to feel a sort of soreness not unlike a shin splint in the sternum after a weightlifting session, or is this an indicator of bad exercise form?
    I remember feeling something similar, but it was after some intense cardio. I suspect it was something to do with breathing real hard but I don't really know.

  17. #47

    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by ah_dut
    I am also very low body weight and trying to gain muscle slowly and without the 6 meals a day advised for professional bodybuilders.


    but my usual routine centres around strength and speed as my cardio is ok so you know, focus on your weaknesses

    3x50 bomber boy press ups
    1x100 normal press ups off bars,
    2x100 'frog' press ups, (for shoulders)
    4x50 'hindu' squats
    2x10 burpees
    1x10 clapping press ups
    5x8 pull ups and one set of 10 at the start
    I doubt you will gain muscle, even slowly. All of the exercises except pullups have too high a rep range for hypertrophy. Get some weights, or try one handed pushups and handstand pushups and one legged squats if you can't afford them.



    I will do all of this with 30 seconds break between sets...and afterwards I feel royally crap. I of course indulge in a heart breakfast and my cardio is quite limited but there was a paper out that said that cardio can be improved by small spurts of hardcore spriting and hill running
    Dr. Tabatas research showed huge improvements in both aerobic and anaerobic capacity when his subjects followed a program of 20 seconds all out effort, followed by 10 seconds mild effort, followed by 20 seconds all out. Total time was 4 minutes which was increased as the subjects got fitter.
    Last edited by Sasaki Kojiro; 06-11-2005 at 03:10.

  18. #48
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
    I doubt you will gain muscle, even slowly. All of the exercises except pullups have too high a rep range for hypertrophy. Get some weights, or try one handed pushups and handstand pushups and one legged squats if you can't afford them.
    .
    I go to the school gym twice a week for an hour. In terms of excercise though, I do handstand pushups and one armed pushups every other day...about 20 of each.

    What re range should I be doing these excercises and what benefit do I currently gain?

    Dr. Tabatas research showed huge improvements in both aerobic and anaerobic capacity when his subjects followed a program of 20 seconds all out effort, followed by 10 seconds mild effort, followed by 20 seconds all out. Total time was 4 minutes which was increased as the subjects got fitter.
    So I'll get fitter?

    I understand the pain and muscle soreness. What I'm feeling seems more like bone stress.
    My breastbone hurts after doing dips...I have ok form, I think it's normal

  19. #49

    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by ah_dut
    I go to the school gym twice a week for an hour. In terms of excercise though, I do handstand pushups and one armed pushups every other day...about 20 of each.

    What re range should I be doing these excercises and what benefit do I currently gain?

    24-36 reps is for max strength with some hypertrophy (divided into sets like 5x5 or 10x3, with near maximal weights).

    36-50 is for max hypertrophy (divided into sets like 4x12, 3x12, 5x10 etc)

    anything more just builds endurance.

  20. #50
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
    24-36 reps is for max strength with some hypertrophy (divided into sets like 5x5 or 10x3, with near maximal weights).

    36-50 is for max hypertrophy (divided into sets like 4x12, 3x12, 5x10 etc)

    anything more just builds endurance.
    Then I'll get that doing weights on Modays and Thursdays won't I?

    I get my endurance during the week doing my own bodyweight...

  21. #51
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Sorry for not keeping up guys, got a new job had to settle and all that.

    24-36 reps is for max strength with some hypertrophy (divided into sets like 5x5 or 10x3, with near maximal weights).
    Actually for pure strength you dont really need more than 6-8 reps with max weight, then another 6-8 with 90% of max weight. And thats it. Thats what powerlifters do.

    What Im talking about is fitness, i.e, conditioning.

    What re range should I be doing these excercises and what benefit do I currently gain?
    You can do a set of 10 of one handed pushups every day and as many handstand pushups as you can manage.

    I understand the pain and muscle soreness. What I'm feeling seems more like bone stress.
    I would say you dont warm up properly. Or jerk. Rest for a few days and try again with a lower weight. If it still hurts go see a doctor. It happened to me a couple of times but it usually goes away after a couple of days of rest and taking it easy.
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  22. #52
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    6-8 reps max weight is probably iincredibly stupid at my age...even if I do like the idea of max strength.

    I do sets of 1 handed push ups and handstand push ups (next to a wall for obvious reasons of balance...I have none) every other day...

  23. #53
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by ah_dut
    6-8 reps max weight is probably iincredibly stupid at my age...even if I do like the idea of max strength.
    Oh, I know, I didnt mean for you, I meant in general.
    I do sets of 1 handed push ups and handstand push ups (next to a wall for obvious reasons of balance...I have none) every other day...
    Actually your balance can also be trained, I started looking at it 3 weeks ago and now can even walk a few steps in a handstand, so just be patient and keep trying.
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  24. #54

    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by ah_dut
    6-8 reps max weight is probably iincredibly stupid at my age...even if I do like the idea of max strength.

    I do sets of 1 handed push ups and handstand push ups (next to a wall for obvious reasons of balance...I have none) every other day...
    No problem with weight lifting at a young age:

    http://www.cbass.com/Weights_kids.htm

  25. #55
    Time Lord Member The_Doctor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    @Swordmaster

    Right now I am doing:

    15 push-ups and 30 sit-ups in the morning.
    An 8.5Km (about 5 miles) cycle everyday (Ok, there is the odd day I don't)
    15 push-ups and 30 sit-ups in the evening (normally after I have been cycling)

    The number of push-ups and sit-ups is increasing as I get stronger.

    What should I add to this list.

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    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Martinus
    @Swordmaster

    Right now I am doing:

    15 push-ups and 30 sit-ups in the morning.
    An 8.5Km (about 5 miles) cycle everyday (Ok, there is the odd day I don't)
    15 push-ups and 30 sit-ups in the evening (normally after I have been cycling)

    The number of push-ups and sit-ups is increasing as I get stronger.

    What should I add to this list.
    well, depends on what are you trying to work out aswell.... basically you are only working out your pecs and legs. I am doing the program I´ve mentioned above and find that it works most of the body although I do go to the gym and do some deadlifts or pronerows twice a week or so.

    It depends on your age as well, how old are you?
    If you are above 16, 30 situps is low. I think you should take off at 50 and work from there. Specially because a 8km cycle is not too much unless you are cycling up the Rockies (which I assume you are not). Do 2 sets of 50 and 2 sets of 15 puchups. Basically you should really push yourself to get stronger. You (and this also goes for the girls afraid of using weights in case they put muscle on) NEVER put on muscle accidentally.Every ounce of muscle means weeks of working really hard, so dont be afraid of doing that.

    It is good you actually are doing something about it, just keep going.
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  27. #57
    Time Lord Member The_Doctor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    I am 20.

    Ok, so I should do more.

    Is there any other exercises that I could do at home?

  28. #58
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
    Oh, I know, I didnt mean for you, I meant in general.


    Actually your balance can also be trained, I started looking at it 3 weeks ago and now can even walk a few steps in a handstand, so just be patient and keep trying.
    Thanks for the clarification...I just think everyone is my age

    As to balance, I am not surprised, but hey...I'll be taking it safe till I can persuade my brother to help me with my handstand pushups....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
    No problem with weight lifting at a young age:

    http://www.cbass.com/Weights_kids.htm
    I know there's nothing wrong with weights, I do them 2-3 times a week. I jsut said there's a problem with powerlifting style weights...I am not sure on the science but doesn't sound like a particularly great idea to me

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    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Martinus
    I am 20.

    Ok, so I should do more.

    Is there any other exercises that I could do at home?

    Oh, yeah, lots of them. crunches, leg raises, one handed puchups, planche puchups, pretty much everything I´ve mentioned above except maybe pullups, but Im sure you can find something suitable within an acceptable distance from your home.

    Read through my program and see.

    I'll be taking it safe till I can persuade my brother to help me with my handstand pushups....
    You can use a tree or a wall...
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

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  30. #60
    Time Lord Member The_Doctor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting fit with SwordsMaster

    Oh, yeah, lots of them. crunches, leg raises, one handed puchups, planche puchups, pretty much everything I´ve mentioned above except maybe pullups, but Im sure you can find something suitable within an acceptable distance from your home.
    How do you do these exercises?

    I think I know "leg raises", is that when you lie on your back and lift up your legs? Leg-ups I called them.

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