Montenegro

[cegorach]

I am searching for any kind of information about Montenegro and its army in XVI-XVIIth centuries.

I would be greateful for anything...

[cegorach]

Never mind...

Are there any guys from Serbia and Montenegro ?

[Magister Pediyum]

I have some pictures of serbian soldier from seconde half of the XVIIth century.They where somewhat different from thous called soldiers of Military Kraina by weapons,wey of fighting the Turks or Venetians but in most things they where gerilla militia.

[cegorach]

I have some pictures of serbian soldier from seconde half of the XVIIth century.They where somewhat different from thous called soldiers of Military Kraina by weapons,wey of fighting the Turks or Venetians but in most things they where gerilla militia.

Great ! Could you send it my e-mail is cegorach77@o2.pl

BTW - do you know how should I call them - I mean in Serbian language (both singular and plural forms) - we are using names in their national languages, so please add this as well.

Thanks in advance Cegorach

[DukeofSerbia]

cegorach1 If you want to know about Serbian Military history just go on site http://www.vj.yu/english/en_odredbe/tradicija.htm and you will find everything you want...

TRADITIONS OF THE SERBIAN AND MONTENEGRIN ARMY

In the process of military training and education, the Army of Yugoslavia gives special attention to cherishing of freedom-loving tradition of Serbian and Montenegrin people. Shining examples of struggle and heroism imbue all the periods of Serbian and Montenegrin glorious past. Freedom loving
tradition represents a source of patriotism, battle spirit and moral strength of Serbian and Montenegrin Armed Forces members.
On the Day of the Serbian and Montenegrin Armed Forces - June 16. - back in 1876 in Venice, the Contract on Serbian and Montenegrin Alliance and Military Convention were signed, assuming concrete military actions for liberation from the Turkish Empire in the Balkans. At the Berlin Congress in 1878 mutual Serbian and Montenegrin military success was completed by considerate broadening of territories liberated by them, and the international recognition of the two countries.

EVER LASTING FLAMES OF FREEDOM-LOVING

Ideas of the Secret contract between Serbia and Montenegro signed in Venice more than 120 years ago, represented a source of lasting inspiration and messages, on which all future alliances of Serbian and Montenegrin people were based, until their final liberation and union.
When speaking of 1976 Serbian and Montenegrin alliance, one must bear in mind that the basic characteristics of the Balkans and its people in the 19. century were struggle against the Turkish rule and their efforts to, on the ruins of it and its feudal system, build independent national states. This struggle had different forms and developed unequally with each Balkan nation... Everything depended on geographical location, level of social development, development of their national thought and relation with other nations and countries. Even the conditions for struggle differed.

All these factors, objective and subjective, once provided a more or less successful mutual cooperation; once they were directed differently and represented obstruction, but there were also cases when Balkan nations assumed unfriendly attitudes towards one another.

Three powerful factors influence - according to academician Vasa Cubrilovic - the 19. century development of "eastern issue" and represent its essence:
• The fall of Turkish Empire in Europe as the consequence of its incapability to adjust the military and birocratic feudal system of the Islamic state to the development of civilization and European culture in 19. century;
• Striving of the Turkish Empire conquered nations in the Balkans to reject its authority and win independence;
• Striving of great European powers to, whether for political reasons, replace the Turkish rule in certain conquered countries with their own.

SECRET CONTRACT ON ALLIANCE

As far as Balkan states are concerned, the illusion that Serbian and Montenegrin joining the war will trigger a general Balkan uprising was paid dearly. Agreements signed by prince Mihailo 1866-1868 died with him. Romania and Greece were in no mood for any kind of cooperation in the following war. Thanks to Russia, Bulgaria created its exarchate and was in no mood to enter the war. In such conditions, the Secret contract on Serbian and Montenegrin alliance in war against Turkey was signed.

Serbian-Montenegrin contract assumed that the two countries should enter an alliance whose "direct goal is to liberate Serbian people in European Turkey (Article 1). In order to fulfill the goal, they will fully cooperate and none of them will carry out any military or political moves without the consent of the other (Article 2). Starting from the principle that the territories of European Turkey belong to nations living on them, Serbia and Montenegro assumed obligation to decisively resist attempts of a third power to reach Serbia territories under the Turkish rule (Article 3). Furthermore, the Contract assumes that the two countries cooperate in reaching an agreement with Greece and Romania, and that each will act "towards brotherly nations in Bosnia, Herzegovina and old Serbia, related nations in Bulgaria and Albania in order to prepare them for a general uprising in Turkey and provide them with necessary means." (Article 4).

The Contract assumed that the war would begin ten days after the official verification of the Contract. However, "if Turkey joins a war for one of its principalities" it was regulated that "the other must also enter the war." (Article 5). Peace or truce could be signed only with the consent of both sides. (Article 6). Furthermore, only brief cessation "could be ordered by military commanders in charge" (Article 7). With the Contract Serbia assumed obligation to place 40,000 ducats at the disposal of Montenegro "in the name of assistance to our suffering brothers in Turkey" (Article 8).

THE MILITARY CONVENTION

Closer determination concerning military obligation in war, were defined in a special Military Convention, signed at the same time and regarded an integral part of the Contract. The Military Convention regulated duties of both sides concerning military actions: both sides shall join the war with all available forces (Article 1). The whole European Turkey was proclaimed the territory of war, but the territories of Bosnia, Herzegovina, Old Serbia, Macedonia and northern Albania were defined more closely defined (Article 4). The main territories for Montenegrin Army operations were Herzegovina and northern Albania, while the rest of the territories were covered by Serbian troops.(Article 5).

The border line between the two armies was precisely defined, and for the sake of coordinating of actions, every side was to have its own commander in the supreme command of the other (Article. 6). For the sake of unhindered and fast communication, both sides agreed to provide "direct live connection" and, if possible, telegraphic.

The Contract was signed by the representatives of Prince Nikola Petrovic I and Prince Milan Obrenovic, on June 16. 1876 in Venice.

EVER LASTING BONDS

Although the Serbian-Montenegrin Alliance, resulting from the Secret Contract, did not completely fulfill all political and military goals, above all the liberation of Serbian people in Bosnia and Herzegovina and Old Serbia, nevertheless, its results considerably influenced the change of Serbian and Montenegrin international status. Both countries were recognized, and territorially broadened. Special attention was given to Montenegrin exit to the sea, for the first time since 1443, which registered it as a naval country and gave the right to build and develop a merchant fleet. It will be extremely significant for Serbia in the period of Customs war with Austria-Hungary 1906-1910.

The 1876 alliance between Serbia and Montenegro was, therefor, extremely significant not only for the war which followed, but also in the future history. It was the first war alliance between two Balkan states, which, from that period until the final liberation and union, in the series of wars, always stood shoulder to shoulder, inspired by their ever lasting bond.

WARS FOR INDEPENDENCE

Assistance to Herzegovina uprising drove 1862 Montenegro into the war with Turkey. A decade and a half later, in 1876-1878 war, Montenegrins achieved significant victories in the battles of Vucji Dol (July 28.1876), Fundina (August 14.), Trijepac (September 6.) and Maljat (October 9.). In the battles of Vucji Dol and Fundina, 17,000 Turks were killed, 13,000 wounded and 1,500 captured.

On June 30. 1876 Serbia declared war to Turkey, which was not properly prepared in political, military, diplomatic and financial sense. There was no other ally but Montenegro. Having been defeated on the front, Serbia signed peace with Turkey in the beginning of the following year, and already at the end of the same year it joined another war and ended it successfully. The Serbian Army liberated eastern and southeast part of Serbia.

At the Berlin Congress in 1878, Serbia and Montenegro were recognized as independent states.

FIRST BALKAN WAR (1912-1913)

It was waged by the members of Balkan Alliance: Serbia, Montenegro, Greece and Bulgaria against Turkey. By its results and significance, it exceeded narrow Balkan frames. Serbia lost about 43,000 people and Montenegro about 10,000.

One of the crucial battles was the Battle of Kumanovo (October 23-24 1912). After two days long battle, Turks were defeated and forced to retreat. It caused Serbian Army fast breakthrough towards Skopje. Another significant victory occurred on November 16. the same year, near Bitolj.

At the same time Primorski and Zetski detachments within the Montenegrin Army reached the entrance to Skadar, where they remained until the city surrendered in April 1913. The eastern detachment conquered Berane, Rozaj, Pec and Djakovica in cooperation with parts of the Serbian Army.

SECOND BALKAN WAR (1913)

It was waged between Bulgaria, on one side, and Serbia, Montenegro and Greece on the other. Romania and Turkey also joined the war. Serbia lost some 44,500 people and Montenegro around 1,400.

Occupying Bulgarian positions, at the dusk of July 8. 1913, Serbian Army successfully finished the crucial battle of the Second Balkan war - the Battle of Bregalnica, which was the largest and most difficult battle in its history thus far.

WORLD WAR I

The Battle of Cer (August 12-24. 1914) was one of the most glorious in the military history of Serbian people. Victory achieved by the Serbian Army in this battle was the first allied victory in the First World War (1914-1918). In the crucial part of the operation, on the Mt. Cer, Austria-Hungary Fifth Army was defeated and pushed back across River Drina.

The Battle of Drina (September 6. - November 11. 1914) was the most difficult battle waged by the Serbian Army in WW I, particularly battles around middle flow of River Drina, battles of Gucevo and Mackov Kamen. It also stopped the second offensive of Austria-Hungary Army on Serbia.

The Battle of Kolubara (November 16. - December 15. 1914) and the victory of the Serbian Army contributed to Serbian respect among the allies. In the final phase of the battle, in only 13 days, the Serbian Army managed to expel the enemy from the country and re-establish the fronts on Drina and Sava rivers.

The Battle near Mojkovac (January 6-7. 1916), in which Montenegrin Sandzak Army successfully defended itself against Austria-Hungary offensive, significantly alleviated the operations of the Serbian Army, enabling it to withdraw its troops thorough Montenegro towards Albania.

Albanian Golgotha - Retreat of the Serbian Army (November 1915 - January 1916), also known as "Serbian Golgotha through Albanian gorges" was carried out in the conditions of strong frost, hunger, fatigue, illness and almost every day battles against Bulgarians, Austria-Hungary and Albanians. Some 100,000 soldiers and refugees lost their lives during this legendary march-maneuver of the Serbian Army, which was compared by various historians with Napoleon's and Surovlev's crossing the Alps.

Thessaloniki front (1916-1918) encompasses battles waged by the Entente forces against Central forces on the territory from the Orfan Bay, across Greece and Albania, to the Ionian Sea. In September 1916, the Serbian Army took part in the allied offensive, occupying Kajmakcalan after fierce struggle against Bulgarian forces.

Breakthrough of the Thessaloniki front and allied offensive in autumn 1918, in which the Serbian Army played a crucial role, belong to the most successful operations of the WW I.

Its participation in the WW I Serbia paid with around a million people (some 22% of the population) and Montenegro lost around 50,000 people (1/8 of the entire population).

[cegorach]

I hope I will find something about their army in the XVIITH CENTURY - because it is what interests my the most.

[cegorach]

All right I found nothing about the period I am intertested in

Is it really so hard to find anything about the army of Montenegro in the XVI-XVIIth centuries ?
I really need your support guys from Serbia and MOntenegro
The data will be used in TWO good mods for MTW and RTW - so if you want to be done right...

[DukeofSerbia]

Dear cegorach1,
You found nothing because as everybody know Serbia and Montenegro didn't existed then! They were under Ottoman Empire. Serbs served for Austrian Empire in so called "Military Krajina" (Serbian Vojna granica, German Militärgrenze) and they were directly under Austrian command from Vienna.

[cegorach]

Dear cegorach1,
You found nothing because as everybody know Serbia and Montenegro didn't existed then! They were under Ottoman Empire. Serbs served for Austrian Empire in so called "Military Krajina" (Serbian Vojna granica, German Militärgrenze) and they were directly under Austrian command from Vienna.

Well... according to what I know Montenegro wasn't really conquered - it was 'a fighting teocracy' and had several minor clashes with the Ottomans.
In fact in 1648 a large venetian force landed there and supported local army - both were crushed in the next year.

As far as I know this clan society had a guerilla-like forces - more like brigands - but I am looking for pictures,images anything - which can't be found outside the Montenegro (or Serbia), I believe.
Besides I will need some names of office titles and units - both in Serbo-Croat language ( I don't know it), because in PMTW we are using names in national languages with english descriptions and as far as I think it works really well.

[DukeofSerbia]

There is no Serbo-Croat language. Now there are Serbian and Croatian.

About Montenegro - they fall under Ottomans in 1499. They were some kind of theocracy, nut latter - vladika (archbishop) was ruler. And they want clan society, they were union of tribes (Crna Gora i Brda).

Officeres in Montenegro - the main was serdar - I think that's in rank of colonel. There wes also classical officer kapetan (captain).

About pictures - there is nothing on net. I'm searching but I found nothing. Maybe I have in some book? Who knows?

[cegorach]

There is no Serbo-Croat language. Now there are Serbian and Croatian.

>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry In Polish we use thus term, so I thought it is true in general.

About Montenegro - they fall under Ottomans in 1499. They were some kind of theocracy, nut latter - vladika (archbishop) was ruler. And they want clan society, they were union of tribes (Crna Gora i Brda).

Officeres in Montenegro - the main was serdar - I think that's in rank of colonel. There wes also classical officer kapetan (captain).

>>>>>>>>> Honestly I thought about OFFICE titles - like in the Medieval TW - these would be useful for MTW edition of PMTW. I am going to add Montenegro in 'late' part of our mod.
Any proposals would be useful. The same goes with ancilliaries for RTW edition.

About pictures - there is nothing on net. I'm searching but I found nothing. Maybe I have in some book? Who knows?

>>>>>>>>>>> I hope you will find something. I am really looking forward to it
One guy from Serbia found something, but he is unable/unwilling to send anything - I asked him twice, but there was no answer

Another thing - if you have heard about a notable historical hero/villian useful for Montenegro please give me the information - this guy will appear for sure !
Currently there are 60+ heroes in PMTW 1.0 ( 30 for Poland - but I had more than 80 proposals) and at this moment I am gathering info about more guys for other factions - at this moment I have 20 new ( Irish, English, Scottish, German etc).
There are more than 30 factions in PMTW for MTW and the maximum for heroes is 30 per faction. I want to have as many as possible

My regards and I hope you will find something

[DukeofSerbia]

What you mean heroues? You think on military commanders like Wallenstein, Tilly, Gustav II Adolf (monarch), Stefan Batory (monarch), Jan Kazimir (monarch)... or what?

[cegorach]

What you mean heroues? You think on military commanders like Wallenstein, Tilly, Gustav II Adolf (monarch), Stefan Batory (monarch), Jan Kazimir (monarch)... or what?

Yes. Military good/excellent/terrible commanders, spies, assassins, bishops, emissaries - all of them.
BTW all above are already there