Arthurian : Total War

[Agraes]

Arthurian : Total War official forum is now hosted by Imperium TW at this URL :
http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium...p?showforum=44

List of the previews:

Arthurian TW Preview 26th June: Campaign Map
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=66334

Arthurian: Total War Private Beta
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=65121

Arthurian TW Preview 25th May: Engle & Ebrauc
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=65122

Arthurian TW Preview 7th May: The Seaxe/Saxons
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=64393

Arthurian TW Preview 18th April: Picts and Gododdin
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63744

Arthurian: Total War Trailer#1
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63314

Arthurian TW Preview 17th March: Ui Neill & Rheged
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=62569

Arthurian TW Preview 2d March: Gwent & Powys
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=61907

Arthurian TW sneak peak
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=61224

Arthurian TW Preview 26th January: Dyfneint
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=60261

Arthurian: Total War Map and Icon Preview
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...ight=arthurian


Arthurian : Total War is a mod project I have, based on Barbarian Invasions xpack.

Action will take place during Britain dark ages, in Britain and in Northern Gaul. I have choose 481 AD for the starting date, and it will end in the VIIIth or late VIIth century.

Featured region :



For this time I have choosed those factions :
- 11 Britons factions, like Domnonia, Gododdin, Gwynedd or Rheged...
- 3 Irish factions, Dal Riada, Mumainha and the Ui Neills
- the Picts
- 3 Anglo-Saxons factions : Saxons, Angles and Juts.
- the Franks

COMPLETE FACTION LIST :
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...8&postcount=43

Another map I have made (continental provinces not showned) :



COMPLETE PROVINCES LIST :
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...8&postcount=43

Britons will have very good units and an extended territory but will have to fight on every fronts : rebels kingdoms, Scots of Dal Riada, Picts, Angles, and Saxons.
If you choose Domnonia, you can own Arthur at the beginning of the game (there is no historical evidence but Arthur might have be from Domnonia, and became Amherawdyr 'Imperator' of Britain, or High-King, a successor of the romans governors).
The north Britons will got strong warlords like Urien Rheged, Rydderch Hael of Strathclyde, or Maelgwn Gwynned.
But Saxons will have Cerdic and Scots Aedan mac Gabran.

So Britons will have strong cavalry, romans-like soldiers, and 'Clan Warriors'.
Germans will got a powerful infantry, berserkers and axemen.
Picts will got terribles warriors, with not a good defense but very strong attack, and will be experts at ambush.
Irish will got tribal warriors, lancers, and a lot of javelinemen.

COMPLETE UNIT LIST :
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...0&postcount=86

Fortress will be hillforts, roman cities, etc...

MOD PROGRESS :
We have done a lot in historic researchment.
Faction research : we got 20 factions, factions descriptions are to done.
Symbol research : we got symbol ideas, but none are done yet.
Units research : we have done a lot of Britons units. We need help to find some ideas (historically accurate if possible) for AoR/unique units for the Britons, for more saxons and pictish units, for franks and wisigoths units, and to complete all of our descriptions.
Skinning/Modeling : we need skinners and modelers.
Mapping : map_heights is done.
Codding/texting : none is done.

So if it interest you and if you have not mod project for this summer and/or this autumn please told me

WE ARE RECRUITING MODDERS, ESPECIALLY SKINNERS AND MODELERS !

Our team :
Agraes : project leader, historical research, maybe latter codding.
Ian : historical research, maybe latter codding and mapping.
Ranika : historical research
Thrashaholic : historical research
Spongly : historical research

Original thread on esprit-str : http://forums.esprit-str.com/viewtop...er=asc&start=0

My article on Arthur (in French) : http://membres.lycos.fr/paladinceltique/Arthur.htm

A very good website on the celts (in French) : www.arbre-celtique.com

And in English, this site : www.earlybritishkingdoms.com

[Ianofsmeg16]

sounds good, read bernard Cornwell's warlord chronicles, its about arthur and is actually very historical, I could help with history, i'm like that.

[oj121]

Hey can i just say PLEASE MAKE THIS OR GET SOMEONE IN WHO CAN!!!!

If i can help in any way i will. Being a Welshman and living about 5 miles from a debated spot of Arthurs last stand on the river Ogmore its something i have grown up being interested in. I have no modding abilities but if theres anyway you feel i can help let me know although you seem to have the historical research fairly well done. Just to let you know i am anout to graduate with a degree in Ancient and Medieval history. Dne a bit of work on Welsh history and also the roman occupation etc

[Agraes]

Well, I got a good knownledge of the V and VIth Britain (and Britanny) and I have a lot of book to read this summer

But if we are several working on gathering informations the mod will be better

And if somebody is a specialist of Picts, Irish, or Saxons in the darkages it will be very interesting for me.

I have also read Warriors Chronicles, very good novels ! If only the last movie on Arthur have take a such scenario...

Yes, I had to tell you that there wouldn't be any sarmatian warriors in this mod ! May be sarmatian's inspired cavalry, with their particular spear, and bowmen with composite bow.

[Ianofsmeg16]

about the map, extend the dal radia's holdings a little north, i believe they held land to the north of the isle of skye.
i would like to help you in any way i can (even if you are a heathen frenchman ) doing reserch of the military of that period etc... and i can do very basic text editing(changing the names of factions and whatnot)

[Agraes]

Well the map wasn't made for the mod but for my article on Arthur

So, I have just post few hours ago and there is a several enthusiastic people that have answered me, I think that we can begun with the faction and unit discussion

(even if you are a heathen frenchman )

Yeah I am
But remembers the Llydaw's Blackshields if you have read the Armes Prydein Vawr from the Book of Taliesin

Llydaw = Letavia = Britanny

[Agraes]

This is the banner I have made :


and in a smaller version :

[Ianofsmeg16]

About factions; the terms, south britons and north britons seem to general, if possible, due to faction limitation of 21, have dumnonia, powys, reghed (preferably north and south) and Gwynedd. Saxons are easy, angles, saxons maybe jutes (jutes are kinda small so maybe make a rebel province). North picts, south picts and Dal radia up in scotland, dunno bout ireland about 3 factions there. if my count is correct we have spaces left for more factions, e.g Gwent and Manau, hopefully manau so us manx can kick saxon butt.

sound good?

[Ianofsmeg16]

good map and region sit
http://www.kessler-web.co.uk/History...BritishMap.htm

[Agraes]

I have think about it in the past, and finally I have choosed to do 2 Bretons factions between 4 possibilities :

- a lot of Britons factions, for each main kingdom like you said : Domnonia, Rheged, Powys, Dyfed, Ebrauc and others, including Domnonée, Kernyw and Bro-Erec in Brittany. But if I choosed that the starting date would be 530 AD, when Arthur is dead. The problem is that the bretons factions will not be very differents each others, and at the beginning they will control very few provinces. And will we do the same for Irish and Picts eventualy.
- 3 Britons factions : North, South, and Britons of Brittany.
- 2 Britons factions
- only one briton faction

I think you love the idea of a manau faction
I have plan to make it a rebell province, for all I know your isle have been sometime under Breton control (Gododdin, Rheged, Strathclyde, Galloway ?) and sometime under Scot control, befoire the Viking Invasion.


So I ask the question to everybody : would you like a lot of Britons factions, with a beginning at the death of Arthur, or only two bretons factions, and controling Arthur ?

I have also read a preview of BI on heavengames, it is said that a faction can emerge from another faction (the redactor take the exemple of the Goths from the Ostrogoths).

I think it will be very fine to begin with Arthur and one or twice Britons factions, and when he is dead, a lot of rebellions and the emergence of new kingdoms, if the expansion can make it !

[Ianofsmeg16]

well, if BI does allow factions to emerge then i will go with you, we need to be sure however and if we find out it doesn't then we should go for many factions (inc. manau ) with dumnonia under arthurs control.
and also if you look of that kessler web map, click one of the countries and it'll give you a history

[Agraes]

This map will be very good for our mod
But there is no historical evidence with a lot of informations given, far of it ! There is a cruel lack of source for this period... we didn't called it Dark Ages for nothing ! And the king lists have been wrote between the XII and the XVth century.

Some historians believe that Arthur was only a warlord, or a local king, others that he was the High King or the Amherawdyr of Britain, successor of Emrys Gwledig, and this is my favorite theory !

A very good website with the Gododdin, the Book of Taliesin, the Welsh Triads, Nennius, Gildas and more : http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/...xts/index.html

[Ianofsmeg16]

I agree with Arthur only being a warlord and historical sources tell us that at that period many people named there sons either Arthur or Arturius after a prominent WARLORD ath that time cant remember where i read that.
And btw i found info that says the isle of Man (or ynys manaw) was independant under Manannan and his offspring from 500 until about 650-675 A.D so an independant manx country isnt so far fetched.

[Agraes]

See below for an updated list
FACTION LIST

BRITONS (Christian)
- South Britons, and if we can those who follows we be put as emerging factions during the game : Dumnonia and/or Powys and/or Dyfed and/or Gwent plus 2-3 continental kingdoms
- North Britons, the same with Gododdin and/or Ebrauc and/or Elmet and/or Gwynedd and/or Strathclyde and/or Rheged

IRISH (Christian)
- Gaëls
- Scots

PICTS
- North Picts ? (Pagans, converted by Columba around 550)
- South Picts ? (Christians about this date and the conversion by St Ninnian)

GERMANS
- Saxons (Pagans)
- Angles (Pagans)
- Jutes ? (Pagans)
- Franks (Christians during the reign of Clovis)
- Wisigoths ? (Aryans Christians)

OTHERS
- Gallo-Romans ? (maybe only rebels)

So we got 8 basic factions, who can be extended to 21.

PROVINCES LIST

BRITAIN, Pictland :
- Cat - ?
- Fidach - ?
- Ce - ?
- Circind - ?
- Fotla - ?
- Fortiu - ?
- Fib - ?
- Orkney - ?

BRITAIN, Scots :
- Dal Riada - Dunad?
- Iona - Iona
maybe the differents 'Cenell' like Cenell Gabrain, Cenell Aengus...

BRITAIN, Gwyr y Goggled :
- Strathclyde - Dun Breatann
- Galwyddel (Galloway) - ?
- Manau - ?
- Gododdin - Din Eidyn
- Bryneich - ?
- Caer Wenddoleu - Caer Wenddoleu
- Ebrauc - Caer Ebrauc/Eboracum
- North Penines - ?
- South Penines - ?
- North Rheged - Carlisle
- South Rheged - ?
- Goddeu - ?
- Elmet - ?
- Gwynedd - Dinas Emrys or Din Conwy
- Rhos - ?
- Ynis Manaw - ?
- Mona - ?

BRITAIN, South Britons :
- Dumnonia - ? (lot of differents interestings places)
- Kernyw (for me only exist after the battle of Dyrham, about 570 ) - Isca or Tintagel
- Llyonesse (a bit too legendary ?) - ?
- Glastenning - ?
- Ynis Weith - ?
- Caer Baddan - Badd/Baddon/Badon/Aquae Sulis
- Caer Gwinntguic - ?
- Caer Celomion - ?
- Caer Lundein - Caer Lundein/Londinium
- Caer Ceri - ?
- Caer Gloui - Caer Gloui/Glouvia
- Pengwern - ?
- Gwent - Caerleon-upon-Uisc/Caer Legionis
- Ergyng - ?
- Glywising - ?
- Dyfed/Demetia - Caer Myrddin/Carmarthen
- Brycheiniog - ?
- Ceredigion - ?
- Builth - ?
- Powys - Luggvale?

BRITAIN, Saxons :
- Regia - ?
- Sussex - ?
- Wessex - ?
- Kent (Juts) - ?
- Tanet Island (Juts) - ?
- Colun?

BRITAIN, Angles :
- Anglia - ?
- Fens - ?
- Mercia - ?
- Lindsey - ?
- Deira - ?

IRELAND, Scots :
- Uladh
+ differents cenells

IRELAND, Gaëls :
- Laigin -
- Connacht -
- Mide - Tara
- Mumhan - ?

GAUL, South Britons :
- Cornouailles/Kernyw/Civitas Ossismi (maybe 2 provinces) - Vorgium/Carhaez
- Domnonée/Civitas Coriosoliti - Alet
- Bro-Erec/Civitas Veneti - Vannes/Gwened (stay independant to the early VIIth century)

GAUL, Franks and/or Gallo-Romans
- Civitas Riedones - Rennes/Condate
- mmm much others civitas, as you can see there http://img30.echo.cx/img30/8679/gaule4dk.jpg

GAUL, Wisigoths :
- Civitas Namneti - Nantes
- Civitas Pictones - ?

Ok, this is for the moment, I will add unit list later.

[Agraes]

Ok, first unit list ! Keep in mind that we must modify it when we got the unit list of BI for Romano-British, Celts, Saxons and Franks !

See below for an updated list
UNIT LIST

BRITONS UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Heavy cavalry
- Contus cavalry (Sarmatian's inspired cavalry with long spear but no shield and heavy armor)
- Mounted skirmishers
- Light cavalry
- Dumnonian cavalry (need to control Domnonia)
- Llydaw cavalry (need to control Brittany)
- Clan cavalry

Infrantry :
- Heavy spearmen
- Light spearmen
- Clan spearmen
- Clan warriors
- Foederati Infrantry (unit of the expansion, armed with spear)
- Britons Legionnaries
- Llydaw Blackshields (need to control Brittany)
- Peasants

Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Bowmen
- Skirmisher
- Slinger
- Mountain raider (like the Welsh Bandit of Viking Invasion)

IRISH UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Clan cavalry
- Light cavalry
- Fianna cavalry ?

Infantry :
- Heavy spearmen
- Light spearmen
- Pikemen
- Gallowglasses
- Clan warriors
- Clan spearmen
- Highlanders?
- Bonnachts
- Fianna infantry ?

Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Kerns
- Dartmen
- Slingers

PICTISH UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Pictish cavalry
- Light cavalry

Infantry :
- Spearmen
- Berserkers like's Warriors
- Clan Warriors
- Highlanders ?
- Pictish Peasants
- Pictish females
- Miathi Warriors

Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Crossbowmen ?
- Pictish bowmen
- Pictish Skirmishers
- Miathi Skirmishers

WISIGOTHS UNITS :
Mmm no real idea for the moment.

FRANKS UNITS :
Same, will see with the units of the xpack !

SAXONS/ANGLES UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Light cavalry
- Saxon raiders

Infrantry :
- Heavy spearmen
- Light spearmen
- Berskerkers
- Axemen
- Fyrdmen
- Ulfserks
- Huskarls (general unit)

Skirmishers :
- Skirmisher
- Slinger

Others :
- War Hounds

MERCENARY/REBELS UNITS :
- Frison Pirats
- Juts Warriors
- Irish Warband
- ...

Some pictures will come...

[Myrddraal]

I started work on a campaign map for an arthurian mod ages ago. I'll see if I can find it for you. It went north up to the wall north of hadrians wall (whats it called?), down so that it included Aremorica and the north of the Franc territory, and half of Ireland

[Epistolary Richard]

I think that's the Antonine Wall.

[Ianofsmeg16]

The wall of antoninius pius, oooh go me!

[Agraes]

I started work on a campaign map for an arthurian mod ages ago. I'll see if I can find it for you. It went north up to the wall north of hadrians wall (whats it called?), down so that it included Aremorica and the north of the Franc territory, and half of Ireland

Looks very interesting, but we will need entire Ireland and Pictland also
And that's very kind of you

But the map can be extended West, I will ask Supertw for it. Aniway we cant finish the map before BI is out.

[King Ragnar]

You could make Hadrians Wall A landmark on the campaign map, the wall further north was only made from wood and earth, in 161 tho they left the wall and went back to Hadrians wall.

[Agraes]

The vallum of Antonius was a little one but this line got a very strategic role to keep the Picts north ! With the 2 fortress of Dumbarton and Din Eidynn. The area between the 2 walls was owned by Britons foederati likes the Votudani of Cunedda, allied with the Romans, and in late Vth century here were the kingdoms of Strathclyde and Gododdin.

[thrashaholic]

Agraes I made a Welsh unit list for the MTW 'Fury of the Northmen' mod a while back, and did some research regarding provinces, names etc. if you want to have a look PM me or something.

Good luck with your mod, I'll look forward to playing it.

[Agraes]

I have send you a MP trashaholic, thanks for your help

For the moment I need to find the differents cities of each province.

I need also subjections for the unit lists.

And finally, this is the bretons factions that I suggest :
- As a main faction : South Britons, who will own Domnonia, Kernyw, Gwent, and some other territories.
- For another main faction, I will keep North Bretons, they will own Rheged, Goddeu, Penines.
For emerging factions (if possible)
- Llydaw (Brittany)
- Powys
- Gwynedd
- Gododdin
- Strathclyde
- Ebrauc
- Elmet
- Ynis Manaw & Galwyddel

Featured Historic Battles
A list of some of the battles we can include in the mod.

- The Battle of Mynidd Baddon (Badon Hill), fight around 500 AD (several historians believe 496, but the Welsh annals give 516) between Arthur and the Saxons. A supposed place is Little Solsbury Hill, near the modern Bath. This battle seems to be a feature of the expansion.
In the Historia Brittonum, Nennius write that Badon was the 12th battle of Arthur, and during the journey he kill 960 men
The Welsh annals said that Arthur wear the christian cross during 3 days and 3 nights.
- The Battle of Camlann : death of Arthur and Medrawt (the annals didn't said that Arthur and Medrawt were allied or ennemis), in 537 (or 542).
- The Battle of Arderydd between Peredur and Gwrgi ap Ellifer and Gwenddoleu of Caer Wenddoleu, in 573, this last one died and his bard Myrddin flee in the Celidon forest.
- The Battle of Catterick, between Britons and the Angles of Bernicia. The XIIth century welsh poem 'Y Gododdin', attribued to Aneurin (who lived in the late VIth century), tell this battle, it is said that only one Briton came back to Din Eidyn.
- many others battles...

[Agraes]

Well, interesting screenshots from Barbarian Invasions :

http://img234.exs.cx/img234/8892/thebiansmall7rm.jpg
On this one you can see a saxon army facing the Romano-Briton cavalry crossing a river

http://pcmedia.gamespy.com/pc/image/...3040931603.jpg

[CountMRVHS]

Awesome

Keep at it, guys. Too bad BI is so far away!

I have worked on Arthurian-era mods for my own enjoyment; they just used the VI map, I added some factions and tweaked the units, but it was fun. Best of luck; I'll be looking for this mod when you finish!

[Ianofsmeg16]

BRITAIN, Gwyr y Goggled...
- Ynis Manaw - ?

Ynys manaw - Either Bally Cashtal(castletown) or Cashtal Rosien(Castle Rushen, which is the citadel in castletown)

[Agraes]

As people on TWC also ask me to put several briton kingdoms I will do it

This is the scenario : Arthur is the new king of Domnonia, but he is also the high king of the Britons ! But a lot of others britons kingdoms have claimed their autonomy since the death of Emrys Gwledig, the uncle of Arthur and the last high king, or Amherawdyr. Arthur - and his successors - have to re-unite south britain under one king, to face Saxons !
The Domnonians will control Domnonia, Kernyw, Gwent, Glywising, Caer Lundein, Caer Glew, and Brittany !
I think give to this faction the control of continental territories seems interesting, cause they will got another main front facing Franks and Wisigoths.

[Ianofsmeg16]

Sounds good to me! all we need now is the map and we can get started proper, oh and a skinner etc...

[Agraes]

Well I think that we cant finish the map before BI is out, cause there will be several modifications added by CA in BI, but I hope we can begun the work on it (on the .tga).
If somebody want to skin some units, he can also do it... but for the moment, not the main units who may be presents in the x-pack. I have ordered 3 Osprey books (Pictish Warrior, Arthur and the Anglo-Saxon Wars, Anglo-Saxon Thegn) and I will probably order 3 history books (but there are a little expensive ) :
- Age of Arthur, John Morris
- Arthur's Britain, Leslie Alcock
- Origines de la Bretagne, Léon Fleuriot

And as I have said, I need :
- Pictish specialists
- Saxons specialists
- Irish specialists

but I also accept any welsh specialist in the team. So say clearly if you want to join my team and what you wanna do in the team (historical research, codding, skinning, mapping, modeling...). You can contact me on MSN (agraes1@aol.com) or on my mail adress : agraes@wanadoo.fr

And remember I am also working at this time on Gallia : Total War, based on RTW vanilla

[beauchamp21]

Awsome, idea, i think we should have a constant like Druidic/pagan vs. incoming christian feud, like in mists of Avalon