**Morrowind Total War ! **

[Scorp]

Hi everyone !
I want to introduce...Morrowind Total War Mod .
Our crew is made of polish fans of both TW and TES:Morrowind.
We have got pretty nice team...oh yes...List :

Dj Jacob- descriptions of units and nations
Flamen- newsman,banners,gifs
Radekk- campaign map,tests
Roman Zabawa- tests
Psyborg MJ- advertisements on english sites
Jarlaxle-descriptions of units and nations
Mikhial-descriptions of units,traits of the generals and their retinue
Saruman biały-as same as Mikhial
Valery-graphic
Scorp-advertisements on english sites,textures,graphics
Chooca-reserve
Wercyg-reserve
Kruk(Raven) - models,textures
ED - site admin
Elrond- descriptions of units



As you see,we still need people who can make models,textures etc. If someone is interested in,please send me an e-mail scorp1284@o2.pl ! I'm waiting
I'll try to update this topic as fast as I can,but ya'
know...School,parents...ehh..
Some units are already done.

Faction List :

The Sixth House

The Sixth House poses a number of units affected by the Corpus disease which stand firm on the battlefield. The way they look and behave horrifies their enemies. Unfortunately most of these troops are weaker than their analog units in others factions armies (except mages). What works for their advantage is the fact of their appearance and low production cost. Sixth House’s leaders are corrupt and have no moral rules as they resurrect dead so they can fight on their side


House Telvanni

Telvanni are powerful mages. They use units which mostly use magic spells to attack their enemies. Unfortunately the magic skills were developed at the cost of normal melee fighting abilities so most of Telvanni’s melee units are very weak. What is more, most of the magic units are expensive in production and need much time for their training. The inability of providing their armies with melee fighting units makes Telvanni hire mercenaries, summon undead or even Daedrs if the mages will decide to follow Daedric cult.


Mercenaries (no description yet :P )

House Redoran

House Redoran poses the best hand-to-hand fighters on Vvardenfell who can stand in the same line together with imperial legionaries. Their heavy cavalry is also a force which everybody aware of. The main Redoran’s problem is their lack of magic units.

Hlallu House

Cyrodiil Empire

Ash People

(WOW ! That's a very long post ;)
And we've got unit waiting to be show )

Imperial Archer

Imperial Legionary

Redoran Guard (female)

WiP (Wip !!!!!) Guar ;)

Ash Hunter (without textures,only model)

Orcs

Redoran Elite Warrior

Deadric Generals


Soon I'll update topic and show some InGame shots


Ok people...I think it's all.
Now plz write comments about units ,mod and our job

Regards !
Scorp

Btw.
Our site is working :D
(Warning ! Polish language,but you can go and visit our gallery)
www.morrowindtw.hk.pl

[Templar019]

wow!

[hoccalugee]

this is great stuff and i would like to make some textures and models for this, if my work is up to standard of course!

i've sent you an email scorp

a lot of good ideas have been posted here as well:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=45859

[Bar Kochba]

cool 0ne question

RTW BI or MTW2

[Attrebus]

I personally think there have already been too many TES mods in the works already...maybe a consolidation for the time being...or using your team to work on the Morrowind area for TES: Total War? Or diverting your IMperial resources to Illiac Bay: Total War?

[Scorp]

I personally think there have already been too many TES mods in the works already...maybe a consolidation for the time being...or using your team to work on the Morrowind area for TES: Total War? Or diverting your IMperial resources to Illiac Bay: Total War?

Well,personaly i never saw any TES Mod for Rome Total War
I think we're first :D.
Mod will be for Barbarian Invasion v 1.6
We've got some problems with the map ... So if anybody knows how to edit a map plz send me an e-mail.

In-Game Screens :

http://www.macedku.webd.pl/galeria/z...php?id_phot=16

http://www.macedku.webd.pl/galeria/z...php?id_phot=15

http://www.macedku.webd.pl/galeria/z...php?id_phot=14

http://www.macedku.webd.pl/galeria/z...php?id_phot=13

http://www.macedku.webd.pl/galeria/z...php?id_phot=12

http://www.macedku.webd.pl/galeria/z....php?id_phot=1

Enjoy :D

[Epistolary Richard]

Welcome to the Org, Scorp. Great to see a new mod already making good progress.

If you have any map questions, do feel free to ask them on the Modding Questions forum.

[Justiciar]

Attrebus has a mod planned based on TES 2: Daggerfall, Scorp. Personally, if Betony: Total War gets off any time soon, I'd rather see the mods sharing.. though I don't agree that there should be only one.

Excellent work by the way.

[hoccalugee]

I don't see why all (2) morrowind mods can't use the same resources!

In fact the only difference between them is probably going to be the maps.

I was thinking that once it is (they are) completed it will spawn a series of historical (ahem) campaigns using the same units and gameplay/scripting mods...

I'll do the map for morrowind if you like scorp. Just need a rough of where the borders are and who owns them. How big do you want it and will it be only be vaardenfell or will it be all of morrowind?

I was reading about how total war: medieval 2 is going to have soldiers in the same unit with different heads and arms, this would be great for mixed orcish and imperial units, among other things. Other things being that my models usually have way too many polygons/faces!

[Justiciar]

Acctually, I imagine there will be some noticable differences between units used (Morrowind based = Temple/House/Ashland Dunmers/Imperial while Iliac Based = Redguard/Breton/Imperial).. though some things could undoubtedly be shared.

[Scorp]

Thank you all for your kind comments

And new update :

Mercenaries :




New skin for Imperial Archer (question for you guys...which one looks better? new one or the old one ? )




And one pretty animation
http://rapidshare.de/files/14284045/walka2.avi.html

Regards !
Scorp

[Justiciar]

New one, no question about it.

[hoccalugee]

It seems a writ of Honorable Execution has wiped out Scorp and Attrebus. :(

Nevertheless I'll plod on...

















Ok, maybe too many posts of the netch guys leaping into the air at the bonemold guys...

Justicar...yeah I agree about the units, these guys probably won't be too useful in a Bretony mod...

But what kind of outlander mercenary units do you think the Hlaalu and other houses might use that could be used for other mods?

[Mikhial]

There is whole list of mercenaries:
Redguard swordmasters
Nordic bersercers
Nordic barbarians
Bretonian battle mages
Orcish heavy infantry
I think that those guys normally live nearby iliac bay, don't they?

[Justiciar]

Sounds right to me. I'm not sure about Mercenaries that could be shared between mods. Besides, I think Attrebus is going to wait for MTW:2.. Race-specific Mercenaries and Fighter's Guild Units would be the safest option.

[Attrebus]

Actually, I'm still here, just been busy with other things. Also, I've decided to scrap the Illiac Bay mod, and instead, if there is room available, join here as a lore consultant.

And Justiciar, waiting for MTW2 would be a good idea for me, seeing as how mercenaries in Daggerfall wouldnt exactly aid Mannimarco when he comes through to sack their home city.

Which brings me to another point: are there "hordes" in MTW2?

There is whole list of mercenaries:
Redguard swordmasters
Nordic bersercers
Nordic barbarians
Bretonian battle mages
Orcish heavy infantry
I think that those guys normally live nearby iliac bay, don't they?

And this part brings yet another question: will you be using the "common" (ie Imperial) names for the races, or the proper names for them?

Ie:

Orcs are Orsimer
Redguards are Ra'Gada
Khajiiti subspecies go by their proper names, and not a generic "Khajiit Whatever-it-is"

Nords would have to be divided further:
Mainland Berserkers (no clothing at all, wield Nordic steel)
Skaal Berserkers (wear bear/wolf pelts, silver Nord weapons)
Mainland Reavers (Cyrodiilic leather and bows)
Skaal Reavers (Northern fur and bows)
Skaal Honour Guard (as seen in their village)

The main difference between Skaal and Mainland versions (besides appearance) would be that the Skaal ones will be trainable on Solstheim, the Mainland ones would be mercenary only seeing as how there is no direct path between Morrowind and Skyrim via the Velothi Mountains in the west (nearest pass being Septim Pass south-west of Tel Dresori in Morrowind, and east of Cheydinhal in Cyrodiil)

[Justiciar]

Shame to hear you're dropping your plans, Attrebus. The thing is, a generally larger audience seem able to relate to Morrowind, myself included.. a mod based on Morrowind is therefore more likely to attract attention. Bugger, eh? Still, if you're joining this project, that's good news.

What are those units, anyway hoccalugee? I recognise the armour, but I can only guess at what they might be. Buoyant Armagers and Ashlanders? First thing that came to mind was acctually the Slave Hunters faction in one of the Twin Lamps mods, but that seems a bit far-fetched.

[hoccalugee]

Attrebus:

I like the idea of the real names, but maybe using the empire names in the descriptions as well.

I don't know if i'm part of the polish mod or not either, haven't heard anything from Scorp. Their site hasn't been updated either. Doesn't mean we can't continue though.

Justicar:

I was thinking ashlander elite scout types using bows and swords for the guys in full chitin similar to the chosen archers of the barbarians in RTW, but with less range as they use chitin shortbows and arrows. Quite good at hand to hand and probably the best light armour apart from glass, good at hiding, bonuses in desert terrain and lots of ammo, good endurance...

the bonemolds are hlaalu lawmen, strong experienced medium infantry, with good, not great, damage, strong but only crappy iron longswords, those cheap hlaalu bastards always thinking about money...

the netch guys could be ashlander light infantry, chitin spears or swords, maybe throw some chitin shuriken before attacking, or they could work for hlaalu and have access to slightly better (iron) weapons.

but it's all flexible, i'd prefer if others helped make decisions and suggestions about what kind of units and what weapons and armour each faction will have... i'm more of a modeller and skinner, not really a researcher...

Scorp asked me to make some hlaalu units, but hasn't been forthcoming as to what units they will be able to field, so i thought i'd just do some guys in the standard morrowind armours available and arm them with whatever weapons
they needed to do their particular duties, be that spear, sword, axe, bow or whatever...

anyway, what units do people think hlaalu are going to have? their main strength will be money as they will start with better resource areas and trade rights to the empire, i'm guessing. so they will be able to buy imported armour, like steel and iron, though probably not in full suits, perhaps greaves, boots and gauntlets, maybe they will have some units trained by the imperials, not using imperial armour, but the steel equivalents..

actually i'm starting to think that the game will have a lot of region/resource specific units, and need a lot of mercs for variety, via progressively larger guilds, not just fighters' guilds but mages and thieves too, or tongs. battlemage mercs would require both fighter and mage guilds for example...

maybe you can make glass armoured units if you have a glass mine, a highest level armoury, and a highest level mages guild. perhaps, ebony weapons and armour require an ebony mine, and the highest level armoury. plus loads of cash. if you have a region with a dwarven ruin you can make some units using dwemer armour, or animunculi if you have a mages guild and fund an archaelogical expedition.

we have to make the starting point of the campaign but we also have to extrapolate to a campaign finishing point where some, if not all of the factions are vastly more powerful than they appeared in the game...

however, i'm ranting and i'm not the team leader, i think Scorp is, if the morag tong hasn't got him! Justicar, Attrebus you guys are the experts, what are your opinions? and anyone else of course...and probably some of this stuff has been suggested elsewyr...

Anyway I'm going to make some nords next, should be faster, i don't need to make the models from scratch, as their armour/etc is similar to rtw.

[NodachiSam]

Wow this could be so amazing :D I'm a big fan of morrowind and I'll be watching this for sure.

[Attrebus]

Alright, now things have gotten a bit complicated here it seems, yet this is the general timeline for Morrowind:

406 3E, Sixth House begins to reemerge, murders in Tear and elsewhere

415 3E, Hlaalu Helseth, along with Barenziah, leaves Wayrest for Mournhold

421 3E, Sixth House kills again in Tear, taking out much of the Imperial Embassy there

423 3E, Nerevarine appears in Seyda Neen

425 3E, King Athyn Llethan dies, Helseth suceeds him by popular acclamation and Imperial decree

426 3E, Dagoth Ur is slain, Tribunal looses power, Almalexia goes mad

427 3E, Almalexia is slain in Clockwork City

427 3E, Bloodmoon begins, Hircine slain within 3 months by Nerevarine

427 3E, trial of Vivec, Azura comes down from Oblivion, takes human vessel

428 3E, Sheogorath appears in Imperial City, the Events begin

429 3E, After being forced from Wayrest, the Azuran Incarnate flees across Skyrim, captured in Dawnstar.

430 3E, the Evening Star and Morning Star Parades begin, the Seven Shrines of Vvardenfall are graced by the Incarnate's presence.

430 3E, Incarnate exorcised by actions of Meridian priestess, Blue Dawn begins

430-431 3E, based in Ald Raathim along the Western Coast of Morrowind proper, the former Incarnate leads a war against the followers of Azura throughout Tamriel

431 3E, Cyrodiil is heavily damaged, Imperial Palace is sacked by Azura's forces

431 3E, Ald Raathim comes under siege, Mannimarco (the King of Worms) takes Goranthir, heir to the throne of Firsthold in Summerset Isles, as his new puppet

432 3E, Goranthir is freed from Mannimarco's grasp thanks to a massive coalition (led by Alliance, Loyalist, Sentinel, and Imperial forces, with large contingents coming from each of the major Guilds of Tamriel). Sentinel is heavily damaged, Gadana Pass and much of northern High Rock is left a wasteland due to Mannimarco's Blight-stones

433 3E, Mannimarco is banished, Goranthir freed, but at massive lives lost.

434 3E, Emperor is slain by Assassins, under Mephala's control, who follow the orders of the Camoran Heir, the living descendant of teh Cammoran Usurper from the mid Third Era. Last year of the Third Era.

5 4E, The True Heir is found, order restored to parts of the Empire. Morrowind and Argonia cecede from the Empire. Skyrim and High Rock given autonomy, Valenwood and Sumerset Isles reform the Aldmeri Dominion, cecede from the Empire. Elswyer, Hammerfall, and Cyrodiil remain as the last parts of the Old Empire.

10 4E, Elswyer cecedes after the Mane dies, Hammerfall granted independence. Cyrodiil goes into decline, divides into two kingdoms. Colovia (capital of Anvil) and Nibenay (Eastern and SOutern Cyrodiil, capital at CHeydinhal).
===

Know its quite a bit much, and after 427 its speculation (using the semi-official RPs done as basis of info from 428-433 3E, pure speculation from 434 onwards).

But I wonder...is it possible to have it count UP for both BC AND AD? that would be our major hurdle at the moment.
===
As for the mines, ruins, etc...very good ideas, however:

Daedric ruins should be added, as the ONLY way to get various Daedric units (those being: Golden Saints, Winged Twilights, Scamps, Daedroth, Dremora, etc).

The Dwemeri ruins should, in addition to weapons/armour of the proper make, allow you to command small units of their Animulculi (the Centurions of various versions).
==
I've already gotten the cities set up for the factions, as well as the factions I plan on using:

Temple (Senate): Vivec City*, Almalexia (Inner Mournhold), Necron 3

Indoril (Roman Family): Mournhold* 1

Dres: Tear*, Tel Dresori 2

Hlaalu: Odai garrison, Balmora, Gnaar Mok, Hla Oad, Narisis 5

Redoran: Gnisis, Maar Gan, Ald Ruhn, Bal Isra, Kragenmoor*, Tel Silgrad, Molag Mar 7

Imperials: Ebonheart* (mainland, directly opposite the Vivec Garrison, Firewatch, Vivec Garrison (Vvardenfall Ebonheart), Verannis Hall, Blacklight, Seyda Neen, Dagon Fel, Frostmoth, Firemoth, Buckmoth, Moonmoth, Wolverine Hall, Fort Darius 13

Telvanni: Tel Aruhn, Tel Vos, Vos, Tel Branora, Port Telvanis*, Sadrith Mora, Tel Uvirith 6

Ashland (Urshilaku): Urshilaku Camp*

Ashland (Erabanimsum): Erabanimsum Camp* 1

Ashland (Ahemmusa): Ahemmusa Camp* 1

Ashland (Zainab): Zainab Camp* 1

Sixth House: Kogoruhn, Dagoth Ur Citadel*, Terynal, Vemynal 3
(* is capital, the number after is the number of provinces they start with)
===

Diplomacy at start

Imperials: allied to all houses, trade agreement with Hlaalu, war with Sixth House

Redoran: War with Hlaalu, Sixth House

Telvanni: Neutral to EVERYONE

Dres: War with Indoril and Temple, neutral everyone else

Indoril: Allied with Temple, war with Dres, Sixth House (with Sixth House, no ability to call ceasefire)

Sixth House: war with everyone, no diplomat ability (cant build, or have any at start), also always at war with everyone else, no diplomacy at all. Unable to ask for ceasefire from them.

Temple: war Sixth House, neutral everyone, allied with Redoran and Indoril

Hlaalu: Trade with Imperials, Alliance with Dres, Telvanni, and Indoril, war with Redoran

Ashlanders: Neutral to all
===

For units, any chance we can see some vampires? need about 3 versions of them for the Dres (vampiric nobles and all).

Also, make it so the Dunmeri factions cant recruit horses, and that there is an anti-resource on Vvardenfall that makes it so you cant ride horses at all...and so that if there ARE horses in Vvardenfall, they have a plague-like event for them...killing them off slowly (10% of base numbers per turn).

[Attrebus]

[Double post I think]

[hoccalugee]

History: that's scary, where does all this info come from? Didn't it used to be a D&D campaign? Very interesting anyway...

How are we going to implement the Nerevarine? Not too good if you're playing house Dagoth then suddenly, whammo, you don't exist any more.
Maybe he could be a level 10 imperial assassin (blade) running around taking out 6th house leaders, have to make house Dagoth units more powerful to compensate, lots of hit points, but only a limited number of immortal generals, those other Dagoth guys, tall freaky ones, they'd look great on the battlefield but you wouldn't want to lose them as you can't get more.

Tribunal loses power? Once (if) the Nerevarine is successful, do the temples of the Tribunal disappear or revert to the original aspects? Mephala, et al?
After this, up until the assassination of the Emperor, which of these events will affect the Morrowind campaign and how?

Also, the Nerevarine doesn't have to be successful. Just needs a good chance of being so. If he isn't successful he can come back in a few more years, and the timeline gets put back. Remember, if he fails, he wasn't really the Nerevarine.

If the player's faction gets too powerful/ornery before the assassination, could have waves of imperial troops coming through Cyrodiil Pass ala BI hordes, a people in flight,etc. Which begets the question, are we doing it for BI or RTW original? The Polish guys are for BI if they get back on track, but the Senate/Tribunal or Senate/Imperials thing seems to fit nicely.

I'm assuming 434 3E is when the Oblivion game is set/begins...or not, as it seems 5 years pass until the heir is found, long game that... How will these events affect the Imperial faction? Will all other factions suddenly declare war or demand provinces?

Actually, how will the Imperial faction raise units in Morrowind? I don't recall many dunmer legionaries, maybe they will have to rely on reinforcements and being rewarded with units for accomplishing goals, their units being nonrenewable like mercenaries, and through the East Empire Co they can actually hire mercs? Or their units just take twice as long to recruit, due to the lower population of outlanders?

Semi-official RPs: what does this mean? Sounds intriguing.

Yeah, I was going to write in the daedra resources as well, what about summoning though, don't Telvanni wizards usually do things like this? And if dunmer revert to daedra worship after the power of the Tribunal is broken, it could be like the reforms of Marcus whatsisname in RTW. Suddenly daedric units are recruitable depending on who you have a temple to, eg temple of Azura allows recruitment of Golden Saints. But it's balanced by losing your temple to the Tribunal and having to start from the ground up again. Although some provinces already have Daedric temples/ruins which could be repaired...access to daedric weapons and armour is a bonus too. Do some daedra require living sacrifices? Could affect population growth.

Dwemeri ruins: yep! How about a historical battle? Nords, Dunmer and Dwemer! Except the dunmer just disappear or something...


Factions:

We'll have to find out if the Senate can have more than one province.

Would some of the Imperial provinces actually just be fortifications instead? Significant fortifications, but fortifications nonetheless. Moonmoth isn't really a town, like Caldera and Seyda Neen are. Wolverine Hall could be a fortification that starts with a few spies to signify the nearby thieves guild for example. Ravensrock would be the tiny town, Frostmoth, the nearby Fort.

Would it be better to have the ashlanders as just one faction?

The Sixth House might be able to start with a few forts here and there representing their underground lairs. Maybe we can give them a lot of agents/assassins capable of spreading disease.

Terynal, Vemynal: these are the ancient dunmer citadels, right? What about the others? Could they be rebel provinces? Imagine if the pro-pylon technology could be researched/rediscovered once a faction holds all the citadels.

Rebels: Vampires, daedra, ashlanders who are not from the 4 main tribes, smugglers, slaves argonians and khajiit, bandits and outlaws, daedra worshippers, rebel telvanni. On Solstheim - werewolves and a whole bunch of others, tough island. Other suggestions? Nobody say cliffracers.


Diplomacy:

I assume your diplomatic stance to a faction must be reciprocated by that faction, in which case Telvanni will probably be allied with the Empire (although not necessarily, but then the Empire would also be neutral), neutral to Hlaalu, and at war with Dagoth.

I'd make Dagoth agents able to spy, assinate, sabotage and bribe (by infection into corprus beasts), but not negotiate.


Units:

Vampires?
Sure, night battles only though and armies with vamps travel slower than normal i'm thinking... but lots of hit points, immune to non silver/non magical weapons?

Horses?
What about on the mainland? It would be easy to stop them from going across the water to Vaardenfell by making them unable to board ships. Is it due to the blight that horses aren't in Vaardenfell?

Buoyant Armigers? Are these guys from the temple faction? What are they like? What do they do for kicks?

Lots of other ideas/queries but I'm too tired now and this is too long a post...

[Justiciar]

Perhaps, if you intend to use the unnofficial lore (I recall one of the Bethesda staff saying that the only official lore is that which is released in their games), perhaps it would be better to set the campaign after Morrowind becomes an independant nation, in a state of civil war? You'd have to get rid of the Imperial faction and the 6th house, but it would make things alot easier. It wouldn't really make sense for a long campaign to take place during the short window of time presented by TES:III. Perhaps you could have the Kingdom of Nibenay arrive in the form of a horde, trying to reclaim Septim's empire? "Total War" in such a condition would make more sense.. there'd be a civil war with factions trying to take control of Morrowind without the Empire being there to stop them.

[Attrebus]

History: that's scary, where does all this info come from? Didn't it used to be a D&D campaign? Very interesting anyway...

Yes it did, yet the real Lore began with Daggerfall.

How are we going to implement the Nerevarine? Not too good if you're playing house Dagoth then suddenly, whammo, you don't exist any more.
Maybe he could be a level 10 imperial assassin (blade) running around taking out 6th house leaders, have to make house Dagoth units more powerful to compensate, lots of hit points, but only a limited number of immortal generals, those other Dagoth guys, tall freaky ones, they'd look great on the battlefield but you wouldn't want to lose them as you can't get more.

Tribunal loses power? Once (if) the Nerevarine is successful, do the temples of the Tribunal disappear or revert to the original aspects? Mephala, et al?
After this, up until the assassination of the Emperor, which of these events will affect the Morrowind campaign and how?

Also, the Nerevarine doesn't have to be successful. Just needs a good chance of being so. If he isn't successful he can come back in a few more years, and the timeline gets put back. Remember, if he fails, he wasn't really the Nerevarine.

Like that idea very much, however, there should be a degree of randomness, first in name, then in sex of the Assassin, and also in the race used (can be ANY combination of the 18 possible combinations).

As for the Tribunal, according the unofficial Lore (as supplied via the RP) the Temple broke into three main factions:

Those wanting to go back to the simpler times of Ancestor worship.

Those wanting to try and bring back ALMSIVI

And a third faction seeing the truth, and keeping the Tribunal's religion, yet casting out all references to the False Kings (ALMSIVI), instead worshipping King Indoril Nerevar, and the countless Saints of the Old Temple.

The third faction was made mostly of the Velothi (ie Vehkan) Temple (those being Bouyant Armigers, the Vivec City Ordinators). They became the Temple of Muatra (Muatra being Vivec's spear used to banish Mehrunes Dagon when he attacked Mournhold in about 2400 2E). Their military became known as the Muatramer, yet in honour of their origins, their commanders keep the name of Ordinator.

I'm assuming 434 3E is when the Oblivion game is set/begins...or not, as it seems 5 years pass until the heir is found, long game that... How will these events affect the Imperial faction? Will all other factions suddenly declare war or demand provinces?

Actually, how will the Imperial faction raise units in Morrowind? I don't recall many dunmer legionaries, maybe they will have to rely on reinforcements and being rewarded with units for accomplishing goals, their units being nonrenewable like mercenaries, and through the East Empire Co they can actually hire mercs? Or their units just take twice as long to recruit, due to the lower population of outlanders?

Semi-official RPs: what does this mean? Sounds intriguing.

Actually, as for Oblivion, even though IN CHARACTER (ie playing hte game) it can take as little as 2 months (60 days) to beat the Dagoths to a pulp, the Imperial Library says that Arena (1993) took 10 (489-499 3E)years to collect the items and defeat Jagar Tharn, for Daggerfall (1996) it takes about 3 years (402-406 3E), and for Morrowind it takes about the same (423 - 427 3E). WIth that in mind, and to keep numbers nice and easy, I say about 5 years, considerring one MUST go to Oblivion, and in there the Dragon has no control, hence allowing for a slower percieved passage of time, yet a much faster time passage on the Mortal Plane.

For the Semi-Official RPs, they are Roleplaying things run by various fans, yet several former staff of Bethesda (Ted Peterson and Michael Kirkblade IIRC) are both active players (With Peterson playing various nobles, Sheogorath himself, Helseth, and even the Imperial Family in Cyrodiil)

Yeah, I was going to write in the daedra resources as well, what about summoning though, don't Telvanni wizards usually do things like this? And if dunmer revert to daedra worship after the power of the Tribunal is broken, it could be like the reforms of Marcus whatsisname in RTW. Suddenly daedric units are recruitable depending on who you have a temple to, eg temple of Azura allows recruitment of Golden Saints. But it's balanced by losing your temple to the Tribunal and having to start from the ground up again. Although some provinces already have Daedric temples/ruins which could be repaired...access to daedric weapons and armour is a bonus too. Do some daedra require living sacrifices? Could affect population growth.

They dont summon the Daedra themselves (ie Princes) instead they summon lesser minions (ie Scamp, Hunger, Winged Twilight, Daedroth, Dremora etc).

As for human sacrifice, not in and of itself to summon a Daedra, however, some of the Princes (Mephala, Molag Bal, Nocturn, Vaermina, Meridia, and even Azura when she is pissed off during the Blue Dawn events) occasionaly ask for humanoid blood when fulfilling their requests.

Factions:

We'll have to find out if the Senate can have more than one province.

Would some of the Imperial provinces actually just be fortifications instead? Significant fortifications, but fortifications nonetheless. Moonmoth isn't really a town, like Caldera and Seyda Neen are. Wolverine Hall could be a fortification that starts with a few spies to signify the nearby thieves guild for example. Ravensrock would be the tiny town, Frostmoth, the nearby Fort.

Would it be better to have the ashlanders as just one faction?

The Sixth House might be able to start with a few forts here and there representing their underground lairs. Maybe we can give them a lot of agents/assassins capable of spreading disease.

Terynal, Vemynal: these are the ancient dunmer citadels, right? What about the others? Could they be rebel provinces? Imagine if the pro-pylon technology could be researched/rediscovered once a faction holds all the citadels.

Rebels: Vampires, daedra, ashlanders who are not from the 4 main tribes, smugglers, slaves argonians and khajiit, bandits and outlaws, daedra worshippers, rebel telvanni. On Solstheim - werewolves and a whole bunch of others, tough island. Other suggestions? Nobody say cliffracers.

The Senate can have more than one province, they do actively defend them and such if attacked in their addiitonal (ie non-capital) provinces. But the greater question is, especially regarding Mournhold is this:

Can we have a city zone inside of another city? (Ie City 1 takes up 9 grid spots with a 3x3. City 2 is in Grid 5, the center spot, and is cotrolled by faction 2. Is that possible, or would we have to abstract it further buy making the "Province" tiny, the size merely of the city and about 3 squares for armies, with the other one representing the outer city by fully enveloping the other province, with one city somewhere on there?

Sorry if it doesnt really make much sense.

For the Sixth House, not sure how that would really work, would it make all their units have 0 upkeep maybe, and completely resistant to the Blight?

Terynal, Vemynal, Kogoruhn, and the Citadel of Dagoth Ur are in truth ancient Velothi forts, but should have a faction attached to it. The others (Indoranyon, Hlormoran, etc) should be rebel.

The Rebel idea is good, yet is it possible to make it so that rebels fight each other? I doubt the Werewolves will pass up a roaming band of Reavers if they happen to be nearby.

Diplomacy:

I assume your diplomatic stance to a faction must be reciprocated by that faction, in which case Telvanni will probably be allied with the Empire (although not necessarily, but then the Empire would also be neutral), neutral to Hlaalu, and at war with Dagoth.

I'd make Dagoth agents able to spy, assinate, sabotage and bribe (by infection into corprus beasts), but not negotiate.

Yes, but if its possible I'd like to find a way to make one-sided diplomacy, so that historical rivalries (ie Dres/Indoril, and Hlaalu/Redoran) can be played out fully, and in proper historical faction (with the Dres and Redoran being the instigators, catching Indoril/Hlaalu unawares). In those cases, I'd like Redoran and Dres to be enemies with Hlaalu/Indoril respecitvely, yet have the other two be allied to REdoran (for Hlaalu) and Dres (for Indoril).

As for the Dagoth, yes, very good point. As for the Bribe part, not at all...when transformed, the former self is completely lost (including all possible knowledge and understanding of their former selves) and they become mindless. Infection would be a good way to get an army to be leaderless, yet in no way would it be lorically possible to make it that army "turn" on its old faction.

Units:

Vampires?
Sure, night battles only though and armies with vamps travel slower than normal i'm thinking... but lots of hit points, immune to non silver/non magical weapons?

Horses?
What about on the mainland? It would be easy to stop them from going across the water to Vaardenfell by making them unable to board ships. Is it due to the blight that horses aren't in Vaardenfell?

Buoyant Armigers? Are these guys from the temple faction? What are they like? What do they do for kicks?

Lots of other ideas/queries but I'm too tired now and this is too long a post...

Actualy, Vampires, especially thoes of the Aundae, Berne, and Diodata clans are all EXTREMELY fast. The Diodata are also, along with the Quarra, strong, about 10x that of a Cathay-Raht, the largest humanoid Khajiit breed.

As for the Boyant Armigers: They are the Warrior-Poets of the Temple, disciples of the Vehkan teachings. They whats available, but usually Chitin or Gah-Julan armour, wielding weapons made of Ebony (usually shortswords and spears). They have great morale, yet are relaitively weak in defense, yet powerful on the attack. If you've ever read "Death BLow to Abernannit" the Bouyant Armigers are those that made up the force that attacked Abernannit for the Temple.

Horses?
What about on the mainland? It would be easy to stop them from going across the water to Vaardenfell by making them unable to board ships. Is it due to the blight that horses aren't in Vaardenfell?

Lots of other ideas/queries but I'm too tired now and this is too long a post...

Actually, its for two reasons that Horses are not in Vvaredenfall (three really).

1) The climate is quite harsh on their food. The foods grown in the ashen soil apparantly are poisonous to horses

2) due to that fact, grain and such has to be shipped in. yet while there is the Blight, there is an embargo (actively enforced by the Empire) of all trade not sanctioned by the Empire between the mainland and the Island.

3) The Blight itself turns things infected by it rabid and crazy. Horses are expensive. You dont wanna loose them to the Blight.

(I lied...those were the 3 main reasons, this being the fourht)

4) The Dunmer consider Horse meat a delicacy (no joke). they love to eat them.
===

Phew. That took a long time (30+ minutes) to write up. Hope that answered all your questions.

Also, is it possible to make certain armours 100% immune to certain weapons (ie if I want Silver to be considered a weapon class, can I make an armour class, called "Quality Resistant" to have it be damaged only by certain weapon types at all. Those being anything higher than Silver, [silver, dwemer, ebony, and Daedric]?)

EDIT: DIdnt see you asking about RTW/BI. I'd think that Barbarian Invasion would be best for this mod. Of course, seeing as how I'm NOT the project administrator/coordinator I wouldnt know.

[Mikhial]

A lot of info and so small time We (i mean Polish) aren't dead, but from some time we are not working. I had very hard time recently and honestly i don't know what's going on either. However if some one wants to talk to me, he can do it with MSN messenger: mik.13@interia.pl

Your ideas are wonderful guys, but some of them a little bit too difficult.

horses
i think that they are quiet importanr and so some factions will be able to train them. It's mainly Empire, but also Hllalu and Redoran(1 unit). Horse cavalry would be very expensive and training would take a lot of time. There are also some mercenary units that use horses


Nord mercenaries
I don't think we would divide them to so many types. I've planned only to types: berserkers running around naked and heavy infantry in Skaal armour.

[hoccalugee]

Hi Mikhial!
Sorry I didn't recognise you as one of the Morrowind: TW guys. I was expecting Scorp to post. I'm also sorry to hear you have been having a hard time recently. It's good to hear that work continues, even if it is a little slower than before. I don't use MSN unfortunately, I don't like Microsoft forcing it on XP installations.

Probably a lot of the ideas here are too difficult and that's why we're discussing them. I don't think anyone expects many of them to be used initially. Maybe if the mod is very successful and/or upgraded to Medieval Total War 2, we can sneak a few more in.

What about some units on guars like the one Scorp posted? I wouldn't mind seeing a Redoran in full armour, holding a spear, and riding a guar.

You are the guy deciding on the units, so can you tell me the units that house hlaalu are going to have? Scorp asked me to model them, but he didn't say what they were going to be. I've made one bonemold, chitin and netch leather, just in case. Can you give me some details?

If there are only going to be 2 nordic mercenary units, then I'm half done! And it was probably the difficult half too! Later I wouldn't mind doing some of the ones Attrebus mentioned as they sound pretty cool too.













And the obligatory thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting. Yay!

[hoccalugee]

Thanks for taking the time to reply Attrebus.

If we do the Nerevarine as an agent, I'd suggest a very generic/shadowy picture or a symbol of Nerevar, instead of specifying which race/sex. This would make it much easier in terms of scripting, I'd guess. And more mysterious too! However, the best solution (to a number of my queries) might just be to set the campaign after Morrowind secedes from the Empire, as Justicar suggests. We could always go back change things in a later release. If so I'd like to see the East Empire Company take control of the Empire's remaining holdings in Morrowind clinging on for dear life, draining every last Septim (is that the correct monetary unit?) out of the area, using the now unemployed legionaries and any one else wanting a quick buck as mercenaries. Also the Empire of Nibenay could be a horde. But what about House Dagoth? They'd be extinct. And could the Skaal be a faction? They've got some very nice units.

Telvanni summoning Daedric minions for battles is ok then? And other factions with a high level mages guild?

What about the imperial forts just being forts, instead of cities? What do you think of that possibility?

One city inside another? I doubt it. Why isn't it just one city? Do the two cities belong to different factions? I read that provinces must be convex, meaning, I think, that you can't have one inside another, it screws up the AI, if I remember correctly. What's the story behind having a city inside a city? Is it totally necessary? Maybe there is another way to simulate it. Cities also need to be at least one pixel/square from the edge of a province, so the minimum size of a province would probably be 3x3 pixels, with the city in the middle pixel/square.

Sixth house units eat corprus meat chunks don't they? The lesser ones anyway. Couldn't this be considered a kind of currency among the followers of Dagoth Ur?

I'd suggest that rebels appear after they have fought each other, ie they only appear one group at a time, simulating the fact that they have already fought amongst themselves and the strongest group has survived and risen to challenge the provincial rulers. Much easier to script that, ie no scripting vs something that I haven't seen mentioned before. But I like the idea, it reminds me of the first Quake game when the monsters accidentally hit each other and started fighting amongst themselves, temporarily ignoring you. This is the wrong place to write this but I'd love to see a Quake or Quake 2 mod for RTW. Fiends, ogres, shamblers, stroggs, it would be awesome! Has anyone mentioned it before?

Do you mean that allied factions won't necessarily attack a faction that their ally is at war with? Making it possible for factions to be allied with with the allies of their enemies. Which probably means that being allied becomes meaningless. Perhaps we want houses not to attack each other if other houses declare war or have a long-standing feud, but if some foreign invaders turn up then they will declare war on the invaders. I'm not sure how that would work from a playability point of view but I can see why you'd want it from a purist POV.

For Dagoth agents bribing, I was thinking more of the entire army being transformed into corprus stalkers, not just changing sides. But then, yeah, it's not really bribing. Still I'd like this to be the main source of units for the 6th house. They can't realistically produce more units inside the Ghostfence.

About the vampires, my meaning was on the campaign map, not the battle map. Truly, vampires are incredibly fast and strong in battle, but, according to legend (I don't know about TES lore), they need to rest in their coffins during the day (and thus are vulnerable), they can't cross running water, their coffins need to filled with the earth of their homeland, animals are afraid of them, most races hate them, etc. I was thinking that these things might have a negative effect on the movement of an army with a vampire general or unit. But TES vampires may be different, I don't know, I didn't play as one in Morrowind.

Immunity to certain weapon types will certainly be something to look into. Maybe it could be implemented as weaknesses and bonuses to certain types of troops, like peltasts have bonuses vs chariots and elephants.

Again, thanks for taking the time to reply Attrebus (and others of course!).

[Attrebus]

Hi Mikhial!
Sorry I didn't recognise you as one of the Morrowind: TW guys. I was expecting Scorp to post. I'm also sorry to hear you have been having a hard time recently. It's good to hear that work continues, even if it is a little slower than before. I don't use MSN unfortunately, I don't like Microsoft forcing it on XP installations.

Probably a lot of the ideas here are too difficult and that's why we're discussing them. I don't think anyone expects many of them to be used initially. Maybe if the mod is very successful and/or upgraded to Medieval Total War 2, we can sneak a few more in.

What about some units on guars like the one Scorp posted? I wouldn't mind seeing a Redoran in full armour, holding a spear, and riding a guar.

You are the guy deciding on the units, so can you tell me the units that house hlaalu are going to have? Scorp asked me to model them, but he didn't say what they were going to be. I've made one bonemold, chitin and netch leather, just in case. Can you give me some details?

Hlaalu SHOULD have the following, with units marked with a (*) being unique to their faction, and those with a (^) being shared with only 1 or 2 other factions:

Hlaalu Armun-An Guard*
Hlaalu Watchman* (Townwatch essentially, wears Chitin, with an open helm and Armun-An style pauldrons)
Slavers ^ (Shared with Dress, wears Netch, uses silver weapons, excellent in swamps, bonus to the slave/pop ratio when enslaving a province, reduces the happiness of province however)
Royal Guard ^ (Shared with Temple and Imperials, trainable ONLY in Mournhold)
Standard House Units (scouts, laymen, House Cousins, House Brothers, House Fathers, and all other Dunmeri non-Ashlander units.

Thanks for taking the time to reply Attrebus.

If we do the Nerevarine as an agent, I'd suggest a very generic/shadowy picture or a symbol of Nerevar, instead of specifying which race/sex. This would make it much easier in terms of scripting, I'd guess. And more mysterious too! However, the best solution (to a number of my queries) might just be to set the campaign after Morrowind secedes from the Empire, as Justicar suggests.

Actually, I'd rather not, and keep the Nerevarine as an agent as you suggested. Why?
The Total War Series is about taking a historical situation and making it your own with the resources given to you (and various Historical markers along the way). I'd like to keep that, even when moving into another universe entirely.

If so I'd like to see the East Empire Company take control of the Empire's remaining holdings in Morrowind clinging on for dear life, draining every last Septim (is that the correct monetary unit?) out of the area, using the now unemployed legionaries and any one else wanting a quick buck as mercenaries. Also the Empire of Nibenay could be a horde. But what about House Dagoth? They'd be extinct. And could the Skaal be a faction? They've got some very nice units.

I actually want the Skaal to be a faction (using souped up versions of the mercenaries, as well as several other units custom tailored to their clime (reavers, mercenary Reiklings <and their Bristleback mounts>)
Again, see my above comment regarding House Dagoth. I do wish however, to make their generals and units taper off after a while, so the Dagoth defeat is inevitable, but very slow (not always taking place at or before 427 3E).

Telvanni summoning Daedric minions for battles is ok then? And other factions with a high level mages guild?

Interesting, HOWEVER, I dont think that having them summon on the field is feasible. Maybe 3 different types of SUmmoners (Golden Saint, Orgrim, and Winged Twilight mainly) using their conjurations as the dog handlers in RTW do?

What about the imperial forts just being forts, instead of cities? What do you think of that possibility?

Interesting idea. Could it be possible to have 3 units of Imperial Guards, 1 unit of Archers, a unit of Templars, and a Garrison Commander Unit always available for training there, if Empire, regardless of whether a command unit (general/family member) is there at the moment?
Also, they'd have to be permenant, with no deconstruct time or ability (again, is it possible?)

One city inside another? I doubt it. Why isn't it just one city? Do the two cities belong to different factions? I read that provinces must be convex, meaning, I think, that you can't have one inside another, it screws up the AI, if I remember correctly. What's the story behind having a city inside a city? Is it totally necessary? Maybe there is another way to simulate it. Cities also need to be at least one pixel/square from the edge of a province, so the minimum size of a province would probably be 3x3 pixels, with the city in the middle pixel/square.

Ah, there it goes then.

As for city within a city, there IS a reason: In Tribunal, you visited the Inner City of Mournhold, controlled by the Royals (in this case, Hlaalu Helseth and the QUeen Mother, Barenziah). The Outter City (Also called Mournhold) is the domain of the Houes Indoril (the city being their capital).

Sixth house units eat corprus meat chunks don't they? The lesser ones anyway. Couldn't this be considered a kind of currency among the followers of Dagoth Ur?

Actually. Corprus Meat is simply the flesh of the Corprus Beings (both lesser, greater, and the Dagoths themselves). Its used ONLY in a sacrificial way, and is representative of the Heart of Lokhran.

[qupte]I'd suggest that rebels appear after they have fought each other, ie they only appear one group at a time, simulating the fact that they have already fought amongst themselves and the strongest group has survived and risen to challenge the provincial rulers. Much easier to script that, ie no scripting vs something that I haven't seen mentioned before. But I like the idea, it reminds me of the first Quake game when the monsters accidentally hit each other and started fighting amongst themselves, temporarily ignoring you.[/quote]
I would like it too (the infighting, not the Quake). I'd also like it to be possible that when approaching a battle with 2 or more opposing Rebel factions (ie Skaal outcasts and Solstheim Reavers for instance) you could choose who to fight along side, instead of having a massive 3-way free for all (represents various diplomatic wrangling that the commander would obviously do)

Do you mean that allied factions won't necessarily attack a faction that their ally is at war with? Making it possible for factions to be allied with with the allies of their enemies. Which probably means that being allied becomes meaningless. Perhaps we want houses not to attack each other if other houses declare war or have a long-standing feud, but if some foreign invaders turn up then they will declare war on the invaders. I'm not sure how that would work from a playability point of view but I can see why you'd want it from a purist POV.

Pretty much, where the Houses, unless Allied, cannot go beyond Neutral (if they fight, after 3-5 turns of no combat, it goes back to neutral). I would also love if the Temple worked as the Papacy did in MTW did (scripting maybe?). As in, after a massive attack (by a non-House faction, against a House faction) all House factions are automatically set to Ally with each other, and War with the foe, for say 120 turns?

For Dagoth agents bribing, I was thinking more of the entire army being transformed into corprus stalkers, not just changing sides. But then, yeah, it's not really bribing. Still I'd like this to be the main source of units for the 6th house. They can't realistically produce more units inside the Ghostfence.

Interesting. Maybe if a city is plagued (on either side of the fence) the game keeps an invisible tag on the number of corprus beasts (represented by Squalor's icon maybe) for the Corprus beasts. Once it hits a critical mass (say ~3% of population below 5k, or 1500 in cities above that number) the city rebels, giving it to the Dagoths, and also that number of people in Corprus beasts, yet setting settlement size to about 50 or so (yes, via scripts, as the min pop otherwise is 400)

About the vampires, my meaning was on the campaign map, not the battle map. Truly, vampires are incredibly fast and strong in battle, but, according to legend (I don't know about TES lore), they need to rest in their coffins during the day (and thus are vulnerable), they can't cross running water, their coffins need to filled with the earth of their homeland, animals are afraid of them, most races hate them, etc. I was thinking that these things might have a negative effect on the movement of an army with a vampire general or unit. But TES vampires may be different, I don't know, I didn't play as one in Morrowind.

Actually, they are NOT your traditional vampires in any sense, beside their need to feed. There are a number of clans (namely Illiac Bay, and CYordiilic Clans) that can stay out during the day (the ancient Bathogorgens, the Kogari, and Diodata are proof of that fact)
In truth, they require no coffins for rest, nor the land of the area they were infected in when resting. Also, they are damaged by the SUN, not necessarily day (so hiding in shadows, or using clouds would be very viable for a Vampiric force).
That in mind, would it be possibel to make certain units deployable under certain circumstances (rain, snow, or night in particular?)

Immunity to certain weapon types will certainly be something to look into. Maybe it could be implemented as weaknesses and bonuses to certain types of troops, like peltasts have bonuses vs chariots and elephants.

Certainly a good idea, adding their weapon/armour as traits, and those traits modifying things against the armours.

Armour traits:
Heavy:
Steel (chain, plate)
Iron (chain, plate scale)
Ebony (chain, plate, scale, enchanted)
Light:
Chitin
Dreugh
Leather (Bovine, and Netch variants, with Netch giving better armour defense <ie armour class>, yet Bovine for better natural defense <ie defense skill>)
Other:
Daedric (Natural, Enchanted, Armoured)
Indoril (Normal and High versions)

Weapon Traits:
Material
Iron (standard)
Steel
Silver (bonus against Daedric Natural armour, only Silver and higher can break that armour)
Ebony (high damage)
Daedric
Type:
Sword (short, long, and 2-hand variants, no specific advantages)
Spear (spears/halberds, strong against chain, bonus to horses)
Hammer (maces and warhammers, strong against chain, scale, and all Light)
Axes (one and 2 hand versions, stong against plate)
Staffs (used by mages, use crossbow animation for firing spells. also used effectively in melee)
Ranged (Crossbow, THrowing Knives, Throwing STars, Javelins, Crossbows, Bows, strong against Natural, Light, and all enchanted varieties)

These here will form an interesting Rock-Paper-Scissors affect thats more complicated than the existing one (with more pronounced resistances/weaknesses to weapons via armour than before)

And for the classes of soldier:

Ranged (light and heavy variants, use Light armours)
Mage (skirmisher and battle variants, no armours, high defense skill)
Heavy Infantry (uses swords, hammers and axes, plate versions of armours)
Light Infantry (sword, spears, and ranged as secondaries, scale and chain versions of armour)
Light Cavalry (spears, swords, chain and scale, no barding)
Medium Cavalry (spears, swords, hammers, plate, leather barding)
General (swords, hammers, ranged, plate or scale, chain barding)

Again, thanks for taking the time to reply Attrebus (and others of course!).

Any time.

[Scorp]

Hello all !
Well,i'm not dead...at all
As Mikhial said we've got a hard time.But i think every mod got it.
Soon i'll update this thread with new units and ideas and ...Wow !
Hoccalugee ! You're models are supreme ! I'm very happy you're makeing them.
And thanks everyone for great ideas !

We still need someone who can do a text work.
You know what i mean...There was a guy in our team who was supposed to do it but he was lazy as donkey .

So ...we're not dead and wish us luck !


Regards
Scorp

[Mikhial]

I think that you have too much ideas and I get completely dizzy

I will try to reply for some question from our point of view:

Guars
Guar cavalry will be the back bone of cavalry of all Dunmer factions. Horsemen would be some kind of exotic and powerful troops for grear houses and normal (but still expensive) unitfo empire.

Hlaalu units
Our idea of Hlaalu army was a mixture of traditional, dunmer warcraft (bonemold armours, guars) and imperial one (things like dunmer legionaires). In my opinion very vital part of their army should be mercenaries, as H weren't kind of militarists.

Nerevarine
I would like Nerevarine to be rather a general. In the beggining there would be some "historical events" and then he would appear as a general of one of the factions (I think that Temple is the best idea). Race? Fixed or if it is possible generated. He would appear with an army composed of mixture of dunmer units (his worshippers).

Daedras
You can "summon" daedras in two ways: by beeing Telvanni (as a normal unit and as generals bodyguards) or by building a shrine, that don't have the faith modificaitors, but decreases order in town.

Period of game
This is an interesting topic, but we are not sure what we will do with it. On one hand it would make preparing mod less difficult, but on the other there wouldn't be Dagoth house, which is particulary interesting.

Imperial forts
They will be only forts (maybe fixed, so they wouldn't disappear).

Corprus meat
I'm not sure what do you mean. Do you want Sixth House to use it as the money? I doubt it's possible.

Rebels
Good idea. I'm not a specialist in scripting (in fact i don't now anything about that) but i guess it's quiet difficult.

Alliances of houses
I think that this alliances don't have to be fixed. In Morrowind from time to time there were roumors about "house wars". However the idea of forced peace after some turns is genial

Bribing-6th house
I guess bribing enemy armies will be normal, I doubt that changing them to blighted creatures is possible. However the idea of insurectioons caused by number of corprus beasts(?) is quiet good. In this case religion would be useful, for example some kind of Dagoths Cult. In this way 6th house would be able to send his agents to enemy provinces. Those agents would give normal religions modificator and so cities with little temples could be converted to D. Cult.

Vampires
Little factions, weak in economy, with little numbers of very strong soldiers. Things like fighting only at night etc. will be decided by script (if it's possible of course)

Immunity to weapons
Hard, but worth trying

If I missed something, remind me. I'm sorry for my lingual mistakes

Regards