Tech trees

[Rodion Romanovich]

Ok, that sounds like a good idea skeletor! I'll have a thorough look at all tech trees today and add improvements everywhere I can and see if any tech trees are so finished that the skinners can use them. I'll add the court when I do that.

[Jarlabanke]

Were Trebuchets around this early?

[skeletor]

Edit... I stumblrd across this:

It is believed that the first trebuchets were used in China as early as in the 7th century. From there this technology spread westwards and reached the Arab countries through Persia and Byzantium. The engines of war were in use all over the Mediterranean by the 9th century and the knowledge of these new and highly efficient weapons disseminated rapidly through the rest of Europe.

So i guass it's not way off having them in.

-Skel-

[Rodion Romanovich]

New siege weapons suggestions:
- Ballista - bolt-thrower. Available to all quite early
- Mangonel - stone thrower. Harder to get. Requires level 3 city.

Only the Byzantines, Khazars and the muslim factions should really be able to use flaming missiles for their archers and artillery, I think. I also think the non-flaming mangonel should be increased in power (but reduced in ammo), whereas the flaming one should be reduced in power. I think we could add a Heavy mangonel if we want more levels of stone throwers. However I think that's unnecessary.

When I searched for onager in Wikipedia I didn't quite get what I wanted:

"The Onager (Equus hemionus) is a large mammal belonging to the horse family and native to the deserts of Syria, Iran, India, and Tibet. It is sometimes known as the Half Ass or the Asiatic Ass [etc.]"

[skeletor]

LoL, com'on guy's, let them have a taste of our good'ld Asiatic Ass throwers...

[Rodion Romanovich]

"native to the deserts of Syria, Iran, India, and Tibet. It is sometimes known as the Half Ass or the Asiatic Ass [etc.]"

I think it should have a combat bonus in deserts and zone of recruit "Syria, Iran, India and Tibet"...

[skeletor]

LOL, this is insane...

Have you seen how many Viking units there are?

javelinmen, bondi, militia bowmen, bowmen, militia archers, viking archers, birkebeiner archers, crossbowmen, spear militia, viking spearmen, geirrmen, militia swordscavalry, militia spearcavalry, raider cavalry, viking cavalry, danish knights, landsmenn, karls, gestr, viking huskarls, birkebeiners, jarl's hird, joms vikings, royal hird, ballista, mangonel.

Thats 25 unit's..

I'll say we cut:

bowmen + milita bowmen = bowmen (hunters)

bondi + spearmilitia = bondi

Royal hird + viking huskarls = viking huskarls

viking cavalry + raider cavalry + militia swordscavalry = raider cavalry
--------------

That leavs 20 unit's, more then most vanilla factions

-Skel-

[ScionTheWorm]

but won't these be spread over four factions? if maybe 15 is shared, there is 3-4 uniques per faction.

[Krusader]

Muslims:

A muslim market is called medina

Muslims have madrasas which are Islamic schools. Some ideas for Abbasid & Al-Andalus tech trees.

[Devercia]

just some random ideas( i dont know if they are already here, as i am just passing by)


I like the idea of plenty of low level militia types, recrutable with little to no buildings

poachers: would replace the "militia archers" most people are refuring to. unskilled in archery, but can hide in grass. fast
"in exchange for pardon and licence to hunt, poachers are recruted to serve as ambushers and light archers"


peasant levies: like peasasnts but a little more combat effectiveness(just replace them with these)


I would like to see low base farming levels, and increased building time, lower exspence of farming buildings.(the saxons were known for crop rotation)

[ScionTheWorm]

Wonder how we will implement the crossbows.. the stone thrower sounds kickass

[ScionTheWorm]

"Known for their fierce and deadly weapon of crap, armies of the half-asses were feared by great generals and kings troughout the whole known world of medievel times"

[Rodion Romanovich]

Talk about ass-kicking :)

[ScionTheWorm]

Have some questions 'bout the tech-tree...

1)
shared units:

crossbowmen
pavise crossbowmen
royal knights

when did these arrive? just wondering since our ending date is 1099

2)
France
HRE
Lotharingia

these factions will have the same units? where did Lotharingia lie?

3)
Is there any map of where the factions are located around the starting date (which faction have which provinces etc.). Just curiosity

[Rodion Romanovich]

Have some questions 'bout the tech-tree...

1)
shared units:

crossbowmen
pavise crossbowmen
royal knights

when did these arrive? just wondering since our ending date is 1099

First crossbows arrived around 800 AD in France I think. The HRE introduced them a lot later. Genua is located in Lotharingia and therefore they'd also, if they hadn't stopped existing before 900 AD or so, have had easy access to good crossbows early.

2)
France
HRE
Lotharingia

these factions will have the same units? where did Lotharingia lie?

They'll have pretty similar tech trees. After all, 843 AD was when they were split up, from being the same empire before. But there will perhaps be some more unique units, I haven't found much yet.

Lotharingia is northern Italy as well as some regions between Germany and France - Friesia and Lorraine etc. The Kingdom of Lotharingia lost the northern provinces pretty quickly though.

3)
Is there any map of where the factions are located around the starting date (which faction have which provinces etc.). Just curiosity

Not yet, but you can ask me about those you don't know. I could make a map of it as soon as I get info on what the primary faction colors of all factions will be, and when I know which the provinces will be. Actually this isn't the first time I've needed those colors and the provinces, so I'll try to speed up the process of fixing those things.

[The Stranger]

Wonder how we will implement the crossbows.. the stone thrower sounds kickass

well we could use the Age of Chivalry's models for crossbows.

[ScionTheWorm]

I found this on crossbows.

*341 BCE --- Earliest reliable record of the use of the crossbow at the battle of Ma-ling in China.
*228 BCE --- Earliest factual evidence in the form of a bronze lock mechanism from the tomb of Yu Wang.
*1 st. cent. CE --- Heron records a form of hand balllista.
*4 th.-7 th. cents. CE --- Roman evidence from carvings and remains
*385 CE --- F. Vegetius Renatus in De Re Militari refers to crossbows
*947 CE --- Attack on Senlis driven off by crossbowmen.
*985 CE --- Crossbowmen in Lothair's expedition against Verdun.
*986 CE --- 'Lock bows' used in the battle of Hjorungsvag.
*ca. 1000 CE --- The crossbow comes into wide use.
*11 th. century CE --- Tiller is grooved to hold bolt (Wilkinson-Latham, p. 170)
*1066 CE --- Crossbows reintroduced into England by the Normans.
*1096 CE --- Anna Comnena records the use of crossbows in that year by the Normans.