Tech trees

[ScionTheWorm]

Brainstorming a little, I'm a little bored... sorry if these issues are decided already.
- Religion: not implemented in rtw as in mtw... could be similated with buildings. For instance Christianize province, 10 turns... happyness and such affected. As I understand the only way will be to use buildings..? It's not that bad really.
- Hmm... maybe possible, don't know. If for instance you are norway; they are initially pagan, but if a man with the trait "christian" is becoming king, you need to christianize the provinces to not rebelling.
- Trees: not really about the tech tree, but let's reduce the size of trees on battlemap by 1/4 or something. Could easely be done in max i believe...

[Incongruous]

Magyar units should be:
Cavalry.
Magyer Tribesmen (rather like the Scythian nobles) and Kabars (exactly the same as Khazar horse archers)
to
Arpad Aristocracy(stronger and more decorative version of Magyer) and Székely (Rugged Hunnic peoples, semi-civilised looking, amazing firepower greater than the longbow) and Avars (Mailed horse archers, almost as powerful as the Székely )
to
Now nearly a century after the battle of Letchfield some Latin author described mailed cavalry carrying a lance and a bow called "Hungarus" which quite simply means in english Hungarian. I'll try to find a better name but these guys are Christianised Magyars prodominently.
There would also be Transylvanian Knights (these are the christianised Székely) these guys are nutters, I have read stories about these guys causing Turks to flee the field just by beeing there. They will have Scail/mail armour, very very high morale and high attack but they were only ever banded into small groups, say maybe only 40-50 men per unit, they should have reddish armour and facings.
Then there would be also be knights from the city of Bhuda, a very westernised city, so they would be rather like Frankish knights.

Thats all I have time for hope its helpfull.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Brainstorming a little, I'm a little bored... sorry if these issues are decided already.
- Religion: not implemented in rtw as in mtw... could be similated with buildings. For instance Christianize province, 10 turns... happyness and such affected. As I understand the only way will be to use buildings..? It's not that bad really.
- Hmm... maybe possible, don't know. If for instance you are norway; they are initially pagan, but if a man with the trait "christian" is becoming king, you need to christianize the provinces to not rebelling.
- Trees: not really about the tech tree, but let's reduce the size of trees on battlemap by 1/4 or something. Could easely be done in max i believe...

I think no. 2 is impossible and therefore no. 1 isn't that good to include. Unfortunately this means Norway etc. have to be pagan all the way through the mod... No. 3 makes sense, but I personally don't know how to do it, it's probably done by editing one of the models files. 1/4 is IMO an appropriate amount to decrease the height with.

[Incongruous]

I think well have to re-write a bit of history because during the earlt 11cen. Magyar was invaded and a puppet Magyar prince enthroned, all ties with the pagan steppe were lost. So maybe you should leave knights out of the Magyar equasion.

so no christianised cavalry?.

Cavalry

Magyar units should be:
Cavalry.
Magyer Tribesmen (rather like the Scythian nobles very fast and very powerful bows) and Kabars (exactly the same as Khazar horse archers)
to
Arpad Aristocracy(stronger and more decorative version of Magyer) and Székely (Rugged Hunnic peoples, semi-civilised looking, amazing firepower greater than the longbow) and Avars (Mailed horse archers, almost as powerful as the Székely )
to
Carpathian Riders/nobles (the people round the carpathians held on tightly to Magyar tradition) these people are just a re-vamped version of Arpad Aristocracy.
Pannonian Avars, these are the westernised descendants of the steppe Avars and are armed with lances and armoured with chainmail and a Frankic helm.
fejedelem, these are powerfull landowners and each one is the head of a Magyar tribe, they were followed into battle by the best of the best (heavily armoured Magyars carryind a bow and curved sword, they would be like Frankish knights except faster and carrying a bow and curved sword).
Kende , this is the supreme chief of the Magyars, he was important because only he could keep the tribes unified, he would be followed into battle by ten hand picked Fejedelem (these men were armed with long lances and curved swords, they would also be wearing Frankic type armour but with a little Magyar design in it.)

[ScionTheWorm]

I think well have to re-write a bit of history because during the earlt 11cen. Magyar was invaded and a puppet Magyar prince enthroned, all ties with the pagan steppe were lost. So maybe you should leave knights out of the Magyar equasion.

so no christianised cavalry?.

Yes, I vote for no knights. If magyar is invaded in the game by a catholic faction, the ties will be lost, catholic knights will be reqruitable, and it won't be rewritten... right?

Do you know how the bulgarian unit list may relate to the magyars? Not necessarily detailed, but I guess there would be a lot of similar units like for irish/scots in this timeperiod?

[ScionTheWorm]

I think no. 2 is impossible and therefore no. 1 isn't that good to include. Unfortunately this means Norway etc. have to be pagan all the way through the mod... No. 3 makes sense, but I personally don't know how to do it, it's probably done by editing one of the models files. 1/4 is IMO an appropriate amount to decrease the height with.

So no more religion than rtw-cultures and the senate-as-pope thing? I guess it's ok, but I think nifty building or traits could do something... let's see.

Harald StorHarde is born in 930 a.d. with the trait "very christian" or maybe something much better. ok this can only be realized if a trait can affect morale negatively in a province - unless a specific building is built. this building would in that case be "christianize province". in fact, if a character has this trait, the province should become very rebellous so a rebel army probably would attack, to simulate how peasants do not welcome this new horseshit..

this is just in case though, I guess it's a longshot... besides, I think many players, being metalheads and all, welcome a pagan north without christianity.

[Incongruous]

Ok Bulgars.

I think that by this time their army was preodominatley on foot.
So cavalry.
I can't read the language so these are going to be Anglophied names ok.
Bulgar nobles.
Scale mail, triangular shields of wood, pionted metal helmet, long thrusting spear and short straight sword.
Bulgar plainsmen.
Scail and leather armour, bows, leather pointed cap, very fast.
Central Bulgars.
Mail armour, large semi-circular shield, bow, the helmet would of been pionted at the top, with a large rim over the forehead and mail hanging down at the back. Trousesrs would of been quite baggy.
Bulgars of the black sea.
These Bulgars would have been some sort of medium armoured spearmen.
A large amount of scail mail, same kind of helmet as the central bulgars, but this time with a metal eyepiece.
There is also eveidence of some kind of fast swordsman, who I suppose would have worn scail and leather and also carried bows as a secondry weapon.

[Incongruous]

Magyar infantry.

Magyer
simple as hell kind'a infantry.
(really fast), leather armour, no shield and a long curved blade. not the best.
to
Magyer retainers, chain mail, long curved sword, and what I can only describe as well, viking helm, you know with the eye piece and nose gaurd, with cahinmail hanging down the neck And Fejedelem Avars, (these guys are really quite good) long spear, chain mail and leather boots and Frankic helms.
to
Székely (these guys have the same name as their mounted countrymen, so you might want to call them Székely infantry), these guys are real nutters, they wear chain mail topped with lether "Roman looking" shoulder gaurds, they wear the same helm as Magyar retainers except they have chain mail hanging down from the entire rim of the Helm, so all you can see was their eyes, they carried a straight sword and a hunnic bow.
to
Fejedelem Magyar, these are troops raised from a "princes own houshold, (they would rather die than see their prince killed), Chainmail hauberk and a long rich red and yellow tunic they wear underneath that comes down to their knees, leather trousers and tall leather boots. Long two handed curved blade, these guys wear the same helmet as Székely infantry except sometimes they would put on feathery crests, these men also carried bows, (they would be used the same way as pila, fired before closing with an enemy). also Buddha Magyar, Fankic type infantry, mail, fancic helm and a francic sword, (their just Frakish fan club really.

[ScionTheWorm]

Thanks Bopa, I think you're really providing lots of excellent information on subjects we haven't got any proprer research on yet..

[GoreBag]

Religion: not implemented in rtw as in mtw... could be similated with buildings. For instance Christianize province, 10 turns... happyness and such affected. As I understand the only way will be to use buildings..? It's not that bad really.

Marian reforms, perhaps? Bops said that the puppet prince was enthroned in the 11c, which was also when Scandinavia was fully Christianised, if I recall correctly. Perhaps an event should be triggered around that time to represent the Christian transformation of the formerly pagan states, thus allowing the more Christian units to be recruited.

This is just my "two cents", but I'm in the same boat as Scion in the sense that I've been pondering it.

[Incongruous]

NOTE:
The Magyar names have been simplified in order to show some kind of advancement structure if you know what I mean e.g Magyer-Magyer retainers-.Fejedelem Magyar. I just thought that going "EB" style on the Magyars might confuse people who don't speak the language. But if you want I can put back the original names.

[Incongruous]

Ok been doing some research, the Magyars should also have Bulgar, Frankish and a few Greek troops.
I would guess that they would be using a unit similar if not identical to central Bulgars, they should have some sort of East Fankian unit and some kingd of Greaco-Turkic skirmishers.

[Incongruous]

Here is a great picture of a magyar kende surrounded by Fejedelem and his mounted retainers.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/rauno.huikari...900luvulla.jpg

A magyar noble of the Arpadian dynasty.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/rauno.huikari.../jousimies.jpg

A Magyar bow, far more powerful than the longbow at this time period I believe.
http://www.atarn.org/magyar/Image27.gif

This is a drawing based off a wall picture, it will help you understand how the Magyer infantry looked like.
http://www.atarn.org/magyar/Image28.gif

and here is a revised version of the Magyar millitary, far more historically
acurate and I have put back the correct names.

Infantry


Kisebbik Magyar.
A long knee lenght robe of red and yellow cloth under a thicker brown woolen garment that covered the chest, pointed leather cap rimmed with fur, a Magyar recurve bow, and either a spear, a sabre, or an axe.

Kisebbik Kabar , a thigh lenght tunic of green wool, knee length brown leather boots, a Magyar recurve bow, a simple iron skull cap and leather strips wrapped round their arm from their fingers to their elbows.

to second rung.

Kisebbik Magyar ból a Fejedelem, these are the lesser men from a Fejedelem's (princes) Magyer/tribe, they wear thigh length leather boots, a thigh lenght tunic of red cloth under a hauberk of scale armour and an iron pointed helmet with chainmail covering the back of the neck, carry the Magyar sabre aka. Hunnicus Gladius, a Magyar recurve bow and a round wooden shield covered in leather.

Lábfejek ból Székely fiú ból a Hunor, these are the Huns of the Alföld sons of Hunor brother of Magor father of the Magyars. These people are hard and rugged fighters, all that is left of the "Scourge of God". They wear a grey woollen thigh lenght tunic, and knee lenght leather boots, they wear on their torso a leather jerkin trimmed with Wolf fur and a leather pointed cap also trimmed with wolf fur. They carry the same bow as the Magyars and the same sword they also carry a small iron round shield.

Kisebbik Avars ból a Alföld, these heavily armoured spearmen are a strange concept in a Magyar army, they are slow moving heavily armoured spearmen. They wear a chainmail longsleeved hauberk that reaches just below their knees, a pair of fur boots and gloves, a pointed iron/steel helmet with a nose gaurd and eyepeices with chain mail attached from ear to ear. As a weapon they carry a long one handed thrusting spear, and in the other hand they hold a wooden tringular shield rimmed with steel/iron.

To Third Rung.

Lábfejek Magyar, these are the ultimate when it comes to pure Magyar shock infantry. long sleeved Chain mail hauberk, leather boots and gloves, a large two handed Magyar sabre, a pointed steel helm with a leather neck guard from cheek to cheek and alarge round shield on their back.

Kende's Avars. They were described by europeans as carrying "Halberds", they would wear a rich red and yellow cloth knee length tunic under a thigh length long sleeved mail hauberk, they wore knee lenght leather boots and "cut-off" gloves. Their helmet would have been the same as the Lábfejek Magyar but with a hoarse hair crest of red and yellow.

Kende's Lábfejek, these men were born to fire a bow, their skill is unmatched, they are the elite of the Magyar infantry. They would wear a long sleeved knee length cloth tunic of Red and yellow trimmed with green, under an open sleevless jacket of red and yellowed dyed wool trimmed with white fure. Their leather boots were knee lenght and black as were their gloves, their trousers were of a fine green cloth. They carried the best and most powerful recurve bowsand a steel sabre, on their heads they wore pointed steel helmet from which hung a chainmail neck gaurd from ear to ear and atop it they had a red, yellow and green hoarse hair crest.

Magyars ból Buda. These Magyar serve as the guards of the Royal city of Buda, they are formiddible fighters the elite among the seven Magyar tribes, the Huns, Avars and Khabars. They wield the long straight sword of the Franks, carry the Frankish kite shield and are armoured in exactly the same fashion as Frankish knights. Among them would be the Magyar priest the Táltos who would carry into battle the legendry banner of Árpád, The Turul.

I hope this is ok, when do you think you will have the first moddels done?

[Incongruous]

I guess the "foriegn" troops could be region specific.

[skeletor]

Thats amasing Bopa.. Thnx..

Have you got any ideas on their banner.. It could be anything from a Leather in a wooden frame, to a solid metal object.. Eather way it wold be cool having it in another material than they usually are..

I think it wold look cool with a skin if some kind, in a wooden frame, with wolf fur on the edge, and a print of the faction mark. Maybe some special metal objects on it too.

Any thoughts..

[Incongruous]

Yeah, I have thought abaout it, the symbol is the Turul, which I suppose would be a patchwork of Greens, blues and whites, while outside it could be a rich red and and and imperial yellow kind of circuler swirl and angles design and then have white fur around it. You could give the inside a cloth and leather texture.

[skeletor]

Yeah, I have thought abaout it, the symbol is the Turul, which I suppose would be a patchwork of Greens, blues and whites, while outside it could be a rich red and and and imperial yellow kind of circuler swirl and angles design and then have white fur around it. You could give the inside a cloth and leather texture.

I'll see what i can do when i get to it. The turul, and the fur edges wil be really cool i guess. The ammount of colors must be a bit restricted to make it look good ingame.. Too many colors will make it look completely brown ingame, as the colorpixles blend, so i'll see what i can do.

Allso, it wold be nice giving them a less imperialized look compared to the Byzantines ect. They were nomads moving from the eastern steppes due to overcrowding and tribal wars, so giving them a bit nomadic look wold be apropriate for the mod.(Atleast this is what National Geographic writes in their article on them, in the former issue.)


I'll wait for the complete faction symbol to comes out, and make the banner in the same style. It wold be cool having fur edges on their factionsymbol too (hint, hint, Scion )

-Skel-

[ScionTheWorm]

fur edges - good idea. damn I was thinking about waiting for your banner before completing mine... have sit quite some time with this icon now... but one magyar coming up.

[Ranika]

A more general mercenary; of Gaelic origin, but worked a lot of places, from about 750 into the early Renaissance; in English 'The Green Harpers'. Could be present in much of western Europe, maybe eastern Europe even (they were generally criminals, who joined the 'Green Harpers' of Leinster, which worked over a pretty wide area). I know I put out a lot of Gaelic stuff, but, it's what I know.

Uaincruitalthan; could use any Gaelic 'regular' model, but instead of a padded or leather coat, texture it to look like chain armor though. Maybe axemen of some kind.

Just a thought, since getting mercenaries that aren't generic but work over a wide area may be difficult.

[Incongruous]

Yeah restricting the banner to Green, Red yellow and black trimmed with white fur would be good.
Oh and the Magyars were not Nomads, they had settled pasturial and agricultural settlements. A group of Magyars known as the White Magyars had been living in the Carpathian basin since A.D632, they had an advanced agricultural society by the time the Arppadian or Black Magyars came to EWyrop in the late 800's A.D.

[Incongruous]

Ok here goes the cavalry.
Note: Magyar cavalry should be bettter than the horse archers depicted in RTW. These guys wereb't defeated for over a century remember.

Cavalry.

Néptörzs Magyar. These fierce fighters from the Taranian plain shook Europe to its core, their ferociaty and skill with the bow and sabre allowed them to defeat every enemy they encountered for over a century, while the Englisc would dread the sails of the Viking keels, the rest of Europe would dread the thunder of Magayar hooves. "From the Magyars' arrows deliver us, oh God!". These horse archers would wear a knee lenght tunic of red and yellow cloth covered by a leather cuirass. Their boot were tough leather and went all the way up to the thighs. They wore leather bands around their hands to protect their fingers from the bow's lasserations. Their helmet was pointed iron with a horse hair crest of red upon it. Their horses had leather and scail protection and their stirrups allowed them great mobility upon the field.

Néptörzs Khabars. These tribesmen split off from the main Khazar community and joined the Magyar federation in search of a better home. They would wear a green knee length tunic and knee length leather boot along with a leather pointed cap rimmed with fur. They carried the Magyar recurve bow and the curved sabre. Their horse would of had only leather padding. These men are some of the fastest cavalry around, but lack armour.

To Second Rung.

Magyars ból a Alföld. These Magyars enjoy the benefits of technology and wealth. They wear a red and yellow knee length tunic under a sleeveless fir trimmed green jacket. Their boots are knee length and leather trimmed with white fur. They wear black leather gloves on their hands. They carry, a recurve bow and a sabre. Their horses are protected by scale and leather padding armour.

Nyugatra Avar. These Avars are all that remains of the people that once stormed forth from the Taranian plain. But they are still deadly. They would wear a chain mail hauberk and thigh lenght leather boots, a steel "Frankik" helmet with nose guard and eyepieces. These men would carry a long spear and a kite shield. Their horses had scale and leather padding/armour. These men are the earliest form of Magyar heavy cavalry.

Nagy Székely. These are the last nobles of the western Branch of the Huns, they are a proud race who ache for better times, they see the coming of their Magyar bretheren as their salavation. "They thought the scourge gone, but it was only drawing breath". These men wear black and grey furs over a cote of mail. Their helmets have developed from Rus and Hunnic designs, the result is a truly fearsome look. A pionted steel helm rimmed with black or grey wolf fur, it has a nose guard and eyepieces, a chain mail neck guard covers all of the face and neck save the eyes, atop this helm is a black horse hair plume. They wear chain and leather boots and and gloves, they carry the dreaded recurve bow as a secondry weapon, their main weapon is the dreaded double headed hun battle axe, at the tip of its head are hooks which they use to catch routers or pull other cavalrymen from their saddles. They also carry a round wooden shield coverd with leather and rimmed with steel. Their horses have scale armour covered with a black and grey fur horse coat. These men were called the scourge of god for good reason.

To Third Rung.

Lovasság ból a Fejedelem. These are the lesser nobles of a "prince's" tribe, some would even be his family. After seeing what heavily armoured horse could do the Magyar princes started to equip themselves and their retainers with heavy mail hauberks, they also started to put heavy scail-mail armour on their horses. These men wear a rich green and yellow thigh length tunic over a (long sleeved) knee length mail hauberk, there boots are still of leather as are their gloves. They wear the same helmet as the Nagy Székely except they have a green horse pleum instaed. They carry the recurve bow, and a larger version of the Magayar sabre. They are lead into battle by a prince, who would be wearing a lavish red and yellow cloak over a chainmail hauberk, they would wear black leather boots and gloves. They carry a recurve bow and a a sabre. Upon their heads they wear a steel frankik helm with a steel crouwn on it, atop this they would have a plume of red and yellow horse hair and three black feathers. Their horses are armoured exactly the same way as their men.

Lovasság ból a Alföld. These heavy lancers of the Pannonian plain are the second arm of the Magyar heavy cavalry wing. Armoured with a round wooden shield covered with leather and rimmed with steal, plate-mail, and a Frankik helm with nose guard and chain mail coif along with chain mail gloves. armed with a strong heavy lance and a sabre. Their horses are armoured with scail and leather padding. These men are part of the new Magyar cavalry wing, a heavy westernised lancer, they do not use the bow. These men have the edge over their western counterparts as they have more experiance because of almost constant warfare with Byzantium and the Bulgars for near a hundred years.

To Fourth Rung

Nemes ból a Palota. These nople of the palace have been selected from the highest nobles in the realm and have sworn undying alliegence to the Kende.
These men like the Magyars ból Buda are armed and armoured in the modern Frankik way, they are infact "pagan" versions of mounted knights. They bring onto the fiels the sacred banner of the Turul. When these men charge staraight at you, then you will know true fear, each and everyone hase been riding a horse since the age of four, they are the devil on horseback.

Pata ból a Kende. These men are the chosen warriors from among all the peoples of the Magyar fedarate, they wear plate and mail armour, a mail coif and gloves. Their helmet are the same as Lovasság ból a Fejedelem except thier plume is white. They carry a large Magyar sabre, a recurve bow and a kite shield. Their horses are armoured with chain-mail and then have a white horse coat over it. These men wear a red coat trimmed with white fur.
They are led into battle by the Kende (sumpreme chief/king) this man would wear plait armor and chainmail, a steel frankik helm, atop which is the Turul crest ( just a falcon with wings spread and both feet upn the helmet) made of silver, he would have a red and yellow sash around his waist. His horse would have chain mail armour coverd by a white and black horse coat.

This is the entire cavalry list, hope its ok it took me fricken ages.
Note: all magyars cavalry had the stirrup.

[Incongruous]

Just found out that Magyar archers didn't need hand protection so take away gloves from all primary archer units, but armoured units and heavy/medium cav should keep then

[Rodion Romanovich]

Ok, thanks Bopa, you've been of much help. Now that you've posted all info needed I'll look over the tech tree and soon remake it according to your research.

[Rodion Romanovich]

First attempt at Magyar unit lists and which buildings they'll be trained in:

SPEARS
1 - Kisebbik Magyar Spearmen - Light spearmen with recruve bows. Knee length robe, thicker wool covering chest, pointed fur-rimmed leather cap
2 -
3 - Kisebbik Avars ból a Alföld - these heavily armoured spearmen are a strange concept in a Magyar army, they are slow moving heavily armoured spearmen. They wear a chainmail longsleeved hauberk that reaches just below their knees, a pair of fur boots and gloves, a pointed iron/steel helmet with a nose gaurd and eyepeices with chain mail attached from ear to ear. As a weapon they carry a long one handed thrusting spear, and in the other hand they hold a wooden tringular shield rimmed with steel/iron, expensive, multiple training turns.
4 -


WEAPONSMITH
1 - Kisebbik Magyar Axemen - Light axemen with recruve bows. Knee length robe, thicker wool covering chest, pointed fur-rimmed leather cap, fairly cheap.
2 - Kisebbik Magyar ból a Fejedelem - Medium sabremen (hunnicus gladius) with recurve bow, round leather-covered wooden shield, scale armor hauberk, pointy iron helmet with chainmail down over back of neck.
3 - Lábfejek Magyar - Heavy shock two-handed long sabremen. Large round shield on the back, long chainmail hauberk, leather boots and gloves, ponty steel helmet with leather neck guard. About equivalent to huscarles in many ways, expensive.
4 - Magyars ból Buda - Heavy foot knights with frankish style equipment. Long straigth sword, kite shield, armored as frankish knights. Use the eagle banner function of R:TW engine to make them bring with them the Turul into battle, expensive, elite, multiple turns training.

BOWMAKER
1 - Kisebbik Kabar - Archers with magyar recruve bow and very light equipment (perhaps only dagger) for close combat. Thigh lenght green wool tunic, knee length brown leather boots, simple iron skull cap, leather strips wrapped around arm, from fingers to elbows.
2 - Lábfejek ból Székely fiú ból a Hunor - magyar recurve bow, sabre (hunnicus gladius) and small round iron shield. Grey wool thigh length tunic, knee length leather boots, leather jerkin with wolf fur on torso and leather pointed cap trimmed with wolf fur, small unit size.
3 - Kende's Lábfejek - elite archers, better quality recurve bows, steel sabre,
knee length cloth tunic, open sleeveless jacket, knee-length leather boots, leather gloves, pointy steel helmet with chainmail neck guard, expensive, elite.

CAVALRY
1 - Néptörzs Khabars - extremely fast, light horse archers with magyar recurve bow and sabre, horse with leather padding, almost unarmored means weak in front-to-front meleé, very cheap and easy to get.
2 - Néptörzs Magyar - light to medium horse archers with bow and sabre, leather cuirass, thigh-length leather boots, leather bands around hands for protection vs bow lacerations, horses leather and scale armor, cheap and easy to get. Will appear in great numbers on the battlefields.
2 - Nagy Székely - recurve bow and double headed axe with hooks on the tips, leather-covered steel-rimmed wooden shield. Black fur over mail armor, pointed steel wolf fur-rimmed helmet topped by horse hair plume - influenced by Rus, hun and magyar designs. Scale armored horses. These are among the magyar key troops with fairly low cost and good availability, and perform well early in the game but they'll be outmatched by the later western heavy cavalry. Better close combat than Néptörzs Magyar but slightly more expensive and slower moving. ZOR: approximately Pannonia area.
3 - Lovasság ból a Alföld - heavy lancers with sabre backup, round wooden leather-covered steel-rimmed shield, plate-mail, frankish helmet with nose guard, the rest including hand covered by chain mail. Horses armoured by scale and leather padding. Westernized unit without bow, expensive.
3 - Lovasság ból a Fejedelem - slightly lighter than Lovasság ból a Alföld and with bow and sabre instead. Very expensive. Served as princes and leader's guard among other things.
4 - Nemes ból a Palota - armed and armored like franks (lance and sword?), bring turul banner, very expensive, elite.


- Pata ból a Kende - General's bodyguard, plate and mail armor. Large magyar sabre, recurve bow and kite shield. Horses armored with chain-amil with white coat over. Officers unit should have plate mail armor and chainmail, steel frankish helmet with silver Turul crest on top. Horse with chain mail armor with white and black coat over.


I also need to find info on magyar pre-christian religion. Which gods did they worship during their pagan period?

[Incongruous]

Well they didn't really have gods, they worshipped, the sun, moon,sky and stars. I'll find the names by which the ancient Magyar called them and maybe you could just have somekind of shrine system.

[Ranika]

How many units are intended for a faction? Though I'm sure more homogenized types of factions could share more, but planning number and model allocation should be kept in mind to ensure there is all the model space you'll need.

[ScionTheWorm]

agree, but it don't seem like it's going to be a problem with 500 max... but when we get the unitlist finished we have to get some system of the models; which shall use the same model etc

[Ranika]

That's what I meant; plan for model space. Planning to fit things into models after the fact is much harder than planning after the models are all done.

[Incongruous]

Napsugár-This is the sun, one of the Magyar "gods", this god meant wether you'd have a good harves or a bad one.

Hónap-This is the moon. Theis was the god of the hunt, Although Magyars relied more and more on Agriculture, this god still captured their imagination.


Egek-Celestial spehere or sky.

Csillagzat- THis is star, the Magyar beleved that the starts were holes in the sky and allowed one to see the graet spirits.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Napsugár-This is the sun, one of the Magyar "gods", this god meant wether you'd have a good harves or a bad one.

Hónap-This is the moon. Theis was the god of the hunt, Although Magyars relied more and more on Agriculture, this god still captured their imagination.


Egek-Celestial spehere or sky.

Csillagzat- THis is star, the Magyar beleved that the starts were holes in the sky and allowed one to see the graet spirits.

Ok, then the shrine boni could be:
- Napsugár - +agriculture and +population growth and +happiness
- Hónap - +missile attack and +happiness
- Egek - ? and +happiness
- Csillagzat- ? and +happiness

Better ideas needed where I put the question marks. One of those could be the type of shrine with happiness only but instead more happiness than the others. Then we need to decide which of them will get two happiness boni and which one will get some other bonus, and what bonus that will be.