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  1. #1

    Default Re: Tech trees

    just some random ideas( i dont know if they are already here, as i am just passing by)


    I like the idea of plenty of low level militia types, recrutable with little to no buildings

    poachers: would replace the "militia archers" most people are refuring to. unskilled in archery, but can hide in grass. fast
    "in exchange for pardon and licence to hunt, poachers are recruted to serve as ambushers and light archers"


    peasant levies: like peasasnts but a little more combat effectiveness(just replace them with these)


    I would like to see low base farming levels, and increased building time, lower exspence of farming buildings.(the saxons were known for crop rotation)

  2. #2
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tech trees

    You should go look in our Minor Adjustments thread.

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  3. #3
    Dungalloigh Brehonda Member Ranika's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tech trees

    An error of mine; Constantine of Scotland did use Pict levies with arcuballista. He sent many in support of an Irish ally; so, the Pict levies for Scotland should include Pict 'crossbows'; I updated my proposed unit list, which I'll just repost here, so you don't need to go back for it:

    The crossbow (as the medieval weapon) was not used by the Picts. They did use a copy of the arcuballista, but it was poor quality, and the Scots didn't use it, but Pictish levies did. Highlanders don't emerge until about 1160 as a distinct group apart from lowlanders.

    I'd recommend, then, only sharing units between the Irish and Scots; not allowing them to have other 'shared' units. They simply would look improper in a Gaelic army. If you're going to do the two factions, may as well do them right; you don't need use everything listed, but, these are my suggestions. A general Gaelic army would be composed of (this'll be followed with appropriate uniques for Scots and Irish), largely;

    Gaelic units (Gaels organize in multiples of 5, along the line of 25-50-100-150-200; keep in mind for choosing numbers of men in a unit);
    Kernbannal ('Levy Troop'; unarmored club or spear militia with darts, fight as skirmishers) -
    Description - The hierarchy of Gaelic societies is a bit unusual; it lacks feudal nobles and the subsequent varying ranks of nobles and peasants. However, Kerns tend to fall near the bottom. Without much money or inherent fighting ability, they cannot afford good equipment, nor are they likely to be sponsored by an arras (aristocrat). However, that matters little. Most of the time, a kern is just a man called up to form a militia in times of strife, and fight with whatever is on hand; usually hunting spears or solid clubs, accompanied by light, small javelins, often called darts.

    Soikernbannal ('Levy Archer Troop'; only Gaelic archers they would have, levy archers with knives, hooded cloaks, hide in tall grass, but not really much good; Scots would have some better Regyddite archers probably, will explain below) -
    Description - Gaels rarely employ professional archers as soldiers, except for mercenaries. They, personally, see little value in archers. However, when they do employ their own, they tend to be simple levies of hunters, who, while proficient with their bows, are not soldiers, and easily chased off of a battlefield if engaged not properly defended, or if engaged in a melee.

    Sleanaghta (Spearmen with heavy throwing spears, large round shield, leather helmet, and padded coat (Irish)/leather vest/coat (Scots)) -
    Description - The slea or gae (spear) is the preferred weapon of most Gaelic soldiers. Accompanied with heavy throwing spears and a solid Gaelic targe, these spearmen form the backbone of any Gaelic army. They are professional soldiers, who either bought their equipment, or were sponsored by a wealthier member of society. They are intended to hold positions, and are often placed around missile troops to defend them from cavalry and any other threats that might occur.

    Tuanaghta (Axemen with heavy throwing spears, large round shield, leather helmet, and padded coat (Irish)/leather coat (Scots)) -
    Description - The tua (axe) is one of the oldest and most favored weapons of the Gaels. The Gaelic axe has a particularly weighty head, meant to crush helmets and smash shields. With it, like most Gaels carry, are carried two heavy throwing spears, thrown into an enemy position before a charge. The Gaelic axemen act as a kind of bridge between medium and heavy infantry.

    Claiomhnaghta (Mid-length swordsmen with javelins, large round shield, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Scots)) -
    Description - The claiomh, climh, or clom (sword) is an expensive weapon, but generally well made. Faster than an axe, and generally more wieldy than a spear, it allows the soldier using it to manuever into position for thrusts and slashes. The typical Gaelic sword is shorter than a longsword, but not a shortsword. It generally has a leaf-shaped blade, meant to offer wide, sheering cuts, and devestating thrusts that open wide, gaping wounds. It is accompanied with a heavy Gaelic targe, and three light throwing spears; these spears are favored for swordsmen, so to enhance the mobility of these soldiers, but keep them able to fight in the traditional Gaelic manner.

    Gaemornaghta (Spearmen with long, two-handed spears (not actually pikes though), maybe use phalanx, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Scots)) -
    Description - The Gaemor or Gaemhor (great spear) is a lengthy spear generally used in two hands. It is used in a tight formation as an anti-cavalry and anti-infantry measure; it is difficult to manuever past a wall of spear heads. While in use for centuries, this type of soldier grew increasingly more common among the Gaels as the dark ages and middle ages drove on; a response to the growing importance of cavalrymen.

    Guirran (Horsemen with javelins, and an axe/spear in melee, large round shield, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Scots)) -
    Description - Gaelic light cavalry sticks to the common methods of Gaelic combat. They are skirmishers by default, meant to ride toward an opponent, throw javelins, and retreat, ad infinitum. Training and experience has made them fairly good at this, and the Guirran (horsemen), later called hobblers or hobilars, became a staple of English and French armies as well.

    Amguirran Ridire (Gaelic heavy cavalry with axes/swords, and lance, large-ring chain armor/scale armor, long leines, large round shield, iron conical helmet, should be a bit late period) -
    Description - Champions in Gaelic culture are afforded some of the best weapons and equipment. The Ridire are the Gaelic equivalent of 'knights'; they have a patron who provides them with equipment, training, and gifts for performing well. On horseback, they form the Amguirran (heavy horsemen); Gaels don't tend to use much heavy cavalry, but when they do, they form a powerful reserve on the field for mowing down enemy infantry.

    Clommhornaghta (Longswordsmen with javelins, large round shield, iron helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Scots), or scale armor) -
    Description - The claiomh, climh, or clom (sword) is an expensive weapon, but generally well made. The longsword is a rare weapon among Gaels outside of aristocracy, but wars with vikings helped to popularize it. Wealthier soldiers may often binge and purchase a longsword, from viking traders, or commission one from a smith locally. Such warriors would be small in number, but relatively cheap semi-heavy infantry, since they'd provide most, if not all, of their own equipment.

    Ridire (Gaelic heavy infantry with axes, large-ring chain armor/scale armor, long leines, large round shield, iron conical helmet, throwing spears) -
    Description - Champions in Gaelic culture are afforded some of the best weapons and equipment. The Ridire are the Gaelic equivalent of 'knights'; they have a patron who provides them with equipment, training, and gifts for performing well. On foot, they form heavy infantry soldiers, with throwing spears, like most other Gaelic infantry, to disrupt an enemy line before charging. When defending, they use a tight formation, akin to a Norse shieldwall, to absorb charges.

    Arras (Gaelic general unit, foot nobles with longswords, 'robes', long chain armor, large round shield, iron conical helmet, javelins) -
    Description - Gaelic 'nobility' are drawn from numerous places; everyone from the lowest chief to the high king are considered Arras, as well as indepedent, wealthy merchants and traders. They can afford the best training, the best equipment, and the best soldiers to support them. Like other Gaels, they carry javelins to throw at their enemies before charging, and form a tight shieldwall-like formation to absorb an attack. They use long slashing and thrusting swords, often of Norse design, though Gaels also have their own styles of longsword. The heavy Gaelic targe, good quality chain armor, and a well-made iron helmet, provide them great protection against their enemies.

    Scottish uniques;
    Criosionaghta (Crossbowmen, late period unit, leather armor, an iron helmet, cudgel or mace in melee) -
    Description - The crossbow changed the face of warfare in the kingdom of Alba. Scots took well to it, using it combat eachothers' tribes, as the bolt could pierce even the best chain armor. Arcuballistas had been used by pre-Gaelic Picts, but had never found much favor among Scots. They used the crossbow against both eachother and invaders; progessively more against invaders as they grew more stable and unified.

    Picts (wear long-sleeve shirt, a heavy coat, trousers, boots, tattooed skin, bearded; all Picts hide in tall grass): -
    Pictish Taghnaghta (Pict axemen, with a small round shield) -
    Description - The Picts were subverted and eventually absorbed by the Scots. However, they were sometimes used by Scots as shock troops and skirmishers. Pictish axemen use a small round shield, and a small hand axe; they're not the most skilled, but cheap and plentiful shock troops.

    Pictish Gaenaghta (Pict spearmen with javelins and a small round shield, fight as skirmishers) -
    Description - The Picts were subverted and eventually absorbed by the Scots. However, they were sometimes used by Scots as shock troops and skirmishers. Pictish skirmishers and spearmen were used as harassers and harriers, to weaken and slow down enemy forces. Similar troops made up the majority of Pictish rebels the Scots would eventually have to quell.

    Pictish Fiagai (Pict huntsmen with a light crossbow {imitated arcuballista}) -
    Description - The Picts were subverted and eventually absorbed by the Scots. However, they were sometimes used by Scots as shock troops and skirmishers. Pictish huntsmen were useful as missile troops and ambushers. Picts had used the arcuballista for centuries, after it was introduced by wars and trade with Romans.

    Pictish Argull (Pict nobles with a sword, shield, robe, and leather armor, raise allied morale) -
    Description - The Picts were subverted and eventually absorbed by the Scots. However, they were sometimes used by Scots as shock troops and skirmishers. Pictish nobles fought against the Scots, and beside them; they were fairly well equipped and brave.

    Strathclyders/Regyddites (from southwest Scotland; they'd look like Gaels in this period):
    Gaelo-British Ridire (Look like Ridire, but with a two-handed axe instead of axes/shields, shield strapped to back) -
    Description - The Strathclyders and Regyddites were Britons, heavily influenced by Gaelic culture. Their best soldiers often use a heavy axe, in one or two-hands. This axe is often actually little more than a modified wood axe, though they'd later begin using bearded heads and similar other types of axes.

    Regyddite Bognaghta ('Bowmen', Fair quality archers with knife in melee, in heavy cloaks; 'Bog' is a Norse word for bow that was adopted slightly later than your start period) -
    Description - The Regyddites add substantial ranged power to the Scots compared to normal Gaelic archers. Regyddites have skilled archers, who wear heavy defensive cloaks, and carry long knives in melee. They can fire a fair distance with decent accuracy, and are accustomed to combat, so less likely to break.

    Irish uniques;
    Rastriagha (Irish berserkers, use an axe, cudgel, or hammer, round shield, probably wearing a crucifix (they were fanatics of different saint cults, and also generally trained soldiers), no armor) -
    Description - The Irish have their own berserker tradition, stemming from pagan times, but adapted well into the Christian era. The Irish are generally very fervent people; the most fervent soldiers tend to belong to saint cults, such as the cult of St. Finbar. Their devotion to their people and the Church keeps them constantly training. Many even join monastaries and are actually monks or priests. In battle, they enter a kind of religious-inspired frenzy, and kill anyone they see as a threat to Ireland or Christianity.

    Inishnaghta (Irish islanders from the satellite islands of Ireland, with heavy cloaks, no armor, large round shield, bipenne axe (two blades), heavy throwing spears, leather helmet, painted skin) -
    Description - The islanders of Ireland live among the many sattelite islands. They fight with a version of the Gaelic axe, with two blades, and carry heavy throwing spears. They still paint their skin, and are some of the bravest soldiers in Ireland, though they wear no armor, but a helmet, and instead use a heavy cloak as defense.

    Maiobhanaghta (Irish slingers with knives and a small round shield, padded armor, leather helmet, better than their archers, and slings are substantially longer range than a normal bow) -
    Description - The sling is still a popular weapon among the Irish. It is far longer range than a regular bow, and a sling bullet of clay or stone is surprisingly deadly. Slingers in use by the Gaelic Irish often are used to harass an enemy from great distance. Further, they are professional soldiers, not levies like Gaelic archers.

    Caeisornaghta (Irish macemen, with a round-headed mace {not flanged, like medieval period mace}, round shield, throwing spears, leather helmet, padded armor) -
    Description - The mace is an old, simple weapon. While popularized widely in Europe by the advent of plate armor, Gaels, the Irish particularly, have used the mace for century, with a smooth spherical or egg-shaped head. They are another arm of Irish infantry, and fight like axe or spearmen, with heavy spears thrown before a charge. The mace is essentially a glorified club, but it is very effective against most types of armor and any shield.

    Dinuadda-Claiomhnaghta (Irish longswordsmen; using longsword in two-hands though (not a greatsword), padded armor, iron helmet, available in southern Ireland) -
    Description - Southern Irish longswords sometimes accomodated longer grips, meant to be used in two hands. Longswords were somewhat rare in Ireland to begin with, and these particular weapons rarely proliferated far, but they were a favored weapon of numerous champions and wealthier soldiers, as they could be used in one or two hands. In two hands, they would be able to deal more damage.

    Carpata - Gaelic chariot; chariot models don't count (they are counted with siege engines), but it'd probably need a new model for the driver. Would probably look similar to a British Wetwang chariot in shape, but less decoration than you see on reconstructions; riders would be Sleanaghta or similar infantry, maybe even just use them, in which case no new model would be needed at all; would raise allied morale
    Description - The Gaels still used chariots in this period. They were in rapid decline in use, and had rarely been much of a weapon for war outside of a few regions, where the ground was smooth and flat enough to make good use of them, but they were still a popularized possession, and it was rare for aristocrats to not own at least one chariot for formal events. In war, they were used to drop nobles off into the middle of the fight (which can't be replicated in game), and as a missile platform from which the riders would hurl javelins, and also to crush light infantry by riding over them with the chariot's substantial weight.

    Mercenaries in Scotland and Ireland;
    Ostmen (Ireland and southwest Scotland only; Gaelicized Norsemen; dressed like Gaels, but with a Norse round shield, viking sword or axe, leather or chain armor, round metal helmet, trews)
    Cymri Dynne (All of Britain and eastern Ireland; mercenary Welsh archers)
    Gael Gaedhilbuanna (No province should start with these in them, but they should generate slowly; Gaelic-Norse raiders, available in eastern Ireland and southwest Scotland)
    Gaelbuanna (Gaelic mercenaries in all of Britain, can be a number of mercenaries, really; just use the 'basic' units as mercs; names are easy, instead of 'naghta', the name ends in 'buanna' {'mercenaries'})


    I'm aware you probably won't do all or most of that, but it's what I'd recommend for accurate Gaels (and keeps them from looking at all like Saxons or Welsh, since they didn't at all look like them).
    Last edited by Ranika; 09-03-2005 at 02:21.
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  4. #4
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tech trees

    thanx

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  5. #5
    is not a senior Member Meneldil's Avatar
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    Default Re : Tech trees

    Here's the Franksih army list I posted for Fury of the Northmen MTW mod. I thought it could be helpful :

    Comes: Comes were part of the higher Frankish nobility, they were the king’s most important vassals. What distinguished them from the other members of the nobility was that they had their own vassals, loyal to them personally. When a Comes was granted land by the King, his part of the deal was that he would bring a certain number of knights to the battlefield when summoned. They were often used as the king’s elite bodyguards, or were asked to lead batailles (battlefield divisions) during important battles.

    Units of 15 men
    Armed with spears
    Armoured
    Irresistible charge
    High moral
    Impetuous
    May charge without orders

    Milites: Milites are the backbones of Frankish armies. They are fearsome warriors, and as cavalrymen, their skills are only matched by the Katraphraktoi and by the Normans knights.
    Like many other knights, their arrogance might sometimes be a problem, and might aswell lead them in dangerous situations.

    Unit of 40 men
    Elite unit
    Armed with spears
    Armoured
    Large shield
    Irresistible charge
    High moral
    Impetuous
    May charge without orders
    May dismount before battle

    http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=19258

    Milites pedites: While they mostly fight as heavy cavalry, Milites are sometimes dismounted and used as heavy infantry. Though they may not be as effective as mounted Milites, they are a very effective heavy infantry. Protected by heavy armours and large shields, and armed with swords and axes, they are probably the best infantry a Frankish king could lead to the battle.

    Unit of 40 men
    Bonus vs. armoured troops
    Elite unit
    Armoured
    Large shield
    High moral
    Impetuous
    May charge without orders
    Slow

    http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=19257

    Pueri: Pueri are light cavalry, mostly used to scout out the enemy positions and troop strengths, as well as to take care of skirmishers and light infantry. Unlike milites, pueri aren’t part of the high nobility, but rather poor knights or squires.

    Unit of 40 men
    Powerful charge
    Armed with throwing spears
    Missiles effective against armour
    Fast

    Liberi: Liberi are lesser warriors. Though they can stand a fight against more professional warriors, they are mainly used to make the number, and to support the heavy Frankish cavalry during long fights (which was unlikely to happen, since the Milites’ charge was often enough to break the enemy). Liberi usually use spears and shields or bows.

    Liberi (spearmen):
    Unit of 100 men
    Powerful charge
    Armed with spears
    Large shield
    Weak attack
    Weak defence
    Effective against cavalry
    Can fight on 2 ranks

    http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=19256

    Liberi (archers):
    Unit of 66 men
    Good attack
    Weak defence
    Poor moral

    http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=19255

    Coloni: Coloni are nothing else than quickly-trained peasants. They are not really good at fighting, but they can form a cheap and useful militia in times of need.

    Same thing as peasants from MTW

    Here are some Normans, Britons and Flemish special units:

    Norman Milites: Norman knights are probably the finest cavalry of the era. They learnt how to use lance when fighting as mercenaries for the Byzantines, but unlike Byzantine cavalry who used to charge at a brisk trot, Normans usually enter the fight at the highest speed possible, wreaking havoc in their enemy’s ranks, which usually lead to a quick victory.

    Unit of 40 men
    Armed with spears
    Irresistible charge
    High moral
    Elite unit
    Large shield
    Heavily armoured
    Impetuous
    May charge without orders

    http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=19259

    PS: The use of the cavalry lance + high speed charge was probably not used before the mid/late 10th century, so I don’t know if they should have the irresistible charge. It’s up to you, though I think it would make Norman knights a nice unit.

    Norman infantry (I have no idea if this unit is totally correct, but I know that while Franks were sometimes warring with cavalry armies only, Normans were rather using both infantry and cavalry, so I think it might be a good idea): Unlike franks who were mostly relying on their heavy cavalry and on their archers, Normans used both infantry and cavalry to win battles. Norman, having blood from both Vikings and franks, can form a superb infantry, a good combination of Frankish warfare and Vikings warlike.

    Unit of 100 men
    Armoured
    Strong charge
    High moral
    Elite unit
    Large shield
    Impetuous
    May charge without orders
    Bonus vs. armoured troops

    Devroet: Devroet means literally Breton exile. Whereas Brittany wasn’t actually a part of the Frankish empire, Britons were often used in both Normans and Frankish armies. They are famous for their horsemanship and are used as an effective medium cavalry, used to support heavier cavalry or infantry, or to rout enemy skirmishers or light infantry.

    Unit of 40 men
    Armed with spears and javelins
    Very strong charge
    Missiles effective vs. armoured troops
    Good moral

    Flemish spearmen: The county of Flanders is nominally a part of the Western Frank Empire. In fact, the county was often warring against the French king, and quickly became a semi-independent province. To protect Flanders from attacks from both Normans and Frankish armies, Flemish lords had to train professional warriors, which could defend themselves against the heavy cavalry they often had to fight. Those warriors were also often hired as mercenaries in west Europe.

    Unit of 100 men
    Armed with spears
    Large shields
    Very effective against cavalry
    Powerful charge
    Good moral
    Good defence

    Stipendarii: Mercenary knights are often recruited from all over north-west Europe, as well as Spain and Italy. Stipendarii is the name of those mercenary groups, often composed of fallen knights, fighting sometimes for glory, and often for money. These skilled warriors spend their time fighting for wealthy lords and kings and are a good and reliable cavalry, as well as an effective medium infantry.

    Mounted stipendarii:
    Unit of 60 men
    Armed with spears
    Fast
    Powerful charge
    Bonus versus armoured troop
    Poor moral

    Stipendarii pedites:
    Unit of 60 men
    Good attack
    Bonus versus armoured troops
    Poor moral

    A pic that could be used for Stipendarii, though it's supposed to be a spanish mercenary knight from the XIIIth century :
    http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=19463

    Italian crossbowmen: Italian crossbowmen are considered as the best long range infantry a Christian lord could hire. Crossbow is a fearsome weapon that can easily kill a man in a single shot, and unlike long and composite bows, it can be used effectively after a few days of training. One thing is certain; mercenaries from Italia are famous for their use of the crossbow.

    Unit of 60 men
    Good attack
    Long range
    Weak defence
    Slow rate of fire
    Slow
    Bonus vs. armoured troop
    Poor moral

  6. #6
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re : Tech trees

    Wow, that's great! I now noticed I've missed a lot of the info in this thread. I'll take a look at the last few pages and update the tech trees with the new info in the coming days (I'm working on the map at the same time so it might take some time, but hopefully not too long).
    Under construction...

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  7. #7
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re : Tech trees

    Frankish tech trees under construction ATM. Magyar tech tree needs some more research before it can be completed.
    Under construction...

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Tech trees

    I'm a stickler.

    In Scandinavian languages, they are called ridder (i think thats why their refered to as viking raider in English) or knekt (but that name is probably adopted from the word knight)
    I'm fairly certain it's the other way around. Knekt means boy or man as in "my men will kill you" and is the same word used in Landesknechte much later, as far as I can tell the English adopted it at some point to refer to professional soldiers and later narrowed it further to include only noble warriors.
    Ridder means someone who rides and at some point becomes a noble title.
    Skinkerytter means fearsome champion of the rainbow flag with lightning eyes.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Tech trees

    Knekt, as in German "knecht", would just mean any knight, but more specifically, a knave, which was a rank of knight, but also has a connotation of "manservant".

  10. #10

    Default Re: Tech trees

    I just wanted to set the semantics straight. Although, come to think of it, the Saxon version of the modern word knight could be quite close to knekt for all I know (I know there are more knowledgeable people here) and then it gets hard to tell who used the word first.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Tech trees

    And by semantics I mean etymology. I couldn't find an edit button. Sorry.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Tech trees

    I don't mean to spam, but I noticed there was talk of different kinds of monasteries and such, so I made some quick notes of my thoughts on the matter. Maybe useful, maybe not.

    ASTURIA
    Lots of Spanish/Asturian nationalism here. I figured Asturian bonuses should have to do with fighting against those numerically superior, so morale and defence have priority.

    Monastery of Our Lady of Covadonga
    This monastery is intended to protect and service pilgrims to a Marian shrine rather than to house members of a specific religious order.
    Covadonga, the “Deep Cave”, is said to be the birthplace of modern Spain, and is the beginning of Asturia’s time as a great nation. This is where King Pelayo and his army were visited by the Virgin Mary and given the courage to spread the faith in the Lord.
    The Virgin of Covadonga has been the patron saint of Asturies ever since.
    (Happiness/morale or even armour upgrades could be used, and the Virgin Mary is the patron of Sailors as well)

    Monastery to St. James
    This monastery is intended to house the relics of a saint rather than to house members of a specific religious order.
    St. James the Greater was one of the early disciples of Jesus and the first to be martyred. After his death at the hands of King Herod, angels sailed his body to Spain where he had done much of his work as an apostle.
    St. James is the patron saint of Pilgrims, Horsemen, Blacksmiths, Apothecaries and Gallicia.
    (Just remove mention to whatever areas of patronage will not be affected. Local name would probably be Santiago or Santiagu, depending on how much Castillano and Asturianu have changed since then)

    Monastery of St. Pelagius
    This monastery is intended to house the relics of a saint rather than to house members of a specific religious order.
    Saint Pelagius or Pelayo is not related to King Pelayo. He was a young Asturian boy taken hostage by Moors who promised him his freedom if he would convert to their faith. When he had still not agreed to convert after three years, possibly spent as a male concubine in a harem, he was subjected to torture which he endured for three hours, still keeping his faith "A Christian I have been, Christian I am, and Christian I shall continue to be." The enraged Moors then gave him a martyr’s death and he was canonised shortly after his death.
    Pelagius is depicted as a boy holding a sword in his left hand, his other hand missing.
    (Pelayo died 925, and was canonised shortly after, so this event is well into the time period. However, I find that he fits the theme very well. Gives morale)


    VIKINGS
    I thought each Viking nation should have three different hovs which were different from the others like the Romans in vanilla. The idea behind the wooden church is that a Norse settlement can be made Catholic without turning the entire kingdom to another faith. This will make the citizens less happy, but make the local chieftain look better in the eyes of foreigners and thus improve trade.

    Hov to Ægir
    Although worshipped and feared as a god, Ægir is out of a Giant family and not one of the Aesir or Vanir.
    Terrible Ægir lives on the bottom of the ocean near Hlesey east of Jutland from where he occasionally surfaces to drag a ship down with him to his hall.
    The Æsir, on the other hand, are treated lavishly when they come to visit him, and it is said that his wealth is so great that during banquets his hall is illuminated solely with the shine from all his gold.
    (sea, things like better ships?)

    Hov to Njord
    Njord is the god of the weather and protects fishermen and hunters. He is often invoked to protect sailors.
    Njord is one of the Vanir, a group of gods associated with Elves and fertility that waged war with the Aesir. He came to Asgard along with his children Frey and Freya when the Aesir and the Vanir decided to exchange hostages to ensure peace in the future.
    (sea or fertility)

    Hov to Tor
    Tor is the god of thunder and warriors. He gives strength and inspires ferocity and personifies both of these concepts. Thor is the subject of a multitude of myths, quite a few of which put him in embarrassing situations because his wits are not always equal to his strength. Tor has had many functions and even been a god of fertility at one point, but as more and more gods came about he was seen as a more specialised god of warriors.
    One of the most popular gods in the late part of the age of Norse paganism, Thor’s hammer Mjolnir became a widespread symbol of the Asa faith.
    (war, experience or weapon)

    Hov to Tyr
    Tyr is one of earliest Asir to be worshipped. His symbol is the rune T, an image which later became known as Thor’s Hammer.
    Tyr is the god of war. Where Tor gives the warrior strength, Tyr gives the army courage. His own courage is never doubted as he lost his arm to the wolf Fenris when he, alone among the gods, was brave enough to put a leash on the great animal. Since then he has had to go into battle without a shield.
    (war, morale, Danmark or Svea, I think)

    Hov to Odin
    Odin Allfather is the King of the gods and the god of kings. He is also god of a long range of other things including magic, wisdom, poetry and war. Odin is able to see all the world when sitting on his throne, and his two Raves Hugin and Munin bring him news from all the world.
    Odin had to endure many sacrifices to gain his wisdom. He only has one eye because he threw the other one in Mimer’s well in exchange for a drink of its water.
    Odin lives in Valhalla along where he keeps his private army of Einherjir, dead warriors selected among those who die in battle.
    Odin is often depicted as a man with a raven on each shoulder or simply by a picture of a raven.
    (law)

    Hov to Freyia
    Freya is the goddess of love and fertility and watches over crops and childbirth. Her hall Folkvang is filled with music at all times, and in it dwell those dead warriors who are not found among the Einherjir.
    Freya is one of the Vanir, a group of gods associated with Elves and fertility that waged war with the Aesir. She came to Asgard along with her father Njord when the Aesir and the Vanir decided to exchange hostages to ensure peace in the future. Freya is also well versed in the use of magic, and has taught much to the Aesir.
    (fertility, more towards health and happiness than Frey)

    Hov to Freyr
    Frey is a fertility god with many devoted followers. He inspires physical attraction and has power over the rain and grants good harvest.
    Frey is also a warlike god and possesses a sword than can fight on its own. Another one of his priced possessions is the ship Skidbladnir which always sails by a direct route regardless of the wind and which can become small enough to fit in a pocket. Frey lives in the hall Alfrheim which may in fact be one of the Nine Worlds that make up Norse cosmology.
    Frey is one of the Vanir, a group of gods associated with Elves and fertility that waged war with the Aesir. He came to Asgard along with his father Njord when the Aesir and the Vanir decided to exchange hostages to ensure peace in the future.
    Some followers of the Vanir use Skibladnir as a holy symbol worn as a talisman hanging from their neck.
    (fertility, should be Swedish, I think)


    Hov to Heimdalr
    Heimdalr is the protector of Bifrost, the rainbow bridge which leads to Asgard. His horn Gjallar will be heard everywhere in the word at the time of Ragnarok. He can see a hundred miles around him and hear the growing of the grass, and he requires no more sleep than a bird.
    Heimdalr has nine mothers, so anyone can see that he is not just any god. In fact, he is a god of rulers and instated the Norse caste system with Thralls, Peasants and Warriors.
    (law)

    Hov to Frigg
    Frigg is the wife of Odin and the goddess of motherhood and marriage, but she is also associated with wild nature and is said to know the destiny of all living beings.
    (fertility)


    Hov to Brage
    Brage is the god of poetry and skalds. He is very eloquent and associated with lies and words with little relevance, but he is also invoked in serious oaths, and toasts in his name are used to ensure success in war or rulership or to remember fallen kings.
    Brage is married to Idun who supplies the gods with the apples that keep them young forever.
    (Brage may not have been a god at all in the early part of the time period, but there were already so many gods of fertility and I didn’t want to include too obscure gods)

    Wooden Church
    After Ansgar, the Apostle of the North, had converted King Eric of Danmark to Catholicism, Christians became more accepted in the Norse countries, but they were still wildly persecuted, especially during the pagan backlash after Eric’s death.
    Nonetheless, a church was sometimes built near a marketplace where many foreign believers in White Christ wanted a place to gather. Although the locals would have preferred a proper god, it did help attract trade to their town.
    (something like a trade bonus, but looses out on all the ordinary religious boni. Could have an upgrade to signify that the town was actually made Christian).

    Hov to Ullr
    Ullr is the god of physical exercise and especially fond of skiing and archery. Since the line between sports and a serious duel to settle an argument is often a fine one, he is also concerned with justice. He is associated with the yew, from which bows are often made, and watches over the fields.
    (justice or fertility+missile upgrade.)

    Hov to the Alfr
    The Alfr, or Elves, are considered inferior to the Aesir, but their worship is ancient and since they take a very direct role in human lives and can grant good or (oftentimes) bad luck they receive frequent sacrifices.
    One group of Alfr, the Svartalfr, is closely related to the Dwarves and supplies the Aesir with weapons and wondrous items. Other Alfr are concerned with fertility, and the helping or haunting spirits of households and nature are also closely to the Alfr.
    (weapons bonus)

    GENERAL CATHOLIC
    I wanted these to have Fransiscan, Benedictine and Dominican monasteries, but only the Benedictine exist in the timeline, so I’m also using monasteries devoted to fairly random saints. There’s no real theme to these monasteries except maybe that of knights.

    Benedictine Monastery
    This monastery houses a community of monks who uphold the Rule of St. Benedict. This rigid code divides a monk’s life between sleep, work and religious pursuits and contains a plan for what activities are to be done at which hour of the day and a calendar describing how to observe each religious holiday.
    It is important to know that the Benedictines are not a religious order in the sense of the later Dominicans or Franciscans. Each monastery is self-governing and there is no central leader of the Benedictines.
    Benedictines are pacifists and believe in the value of hard work as summarised in the two mottos “pax” (peace) and “Ora et labora” (pray and work).
    (health and order, could be recruiting place of discussed Hospitaller knights)

    Augustine Monastery
    This monastery houses a community of monks who uphold the Rules of St. Augustinian. These rules attributed to the early church thinker, reformed heretic and founder of at least one monastery in Africa seek to keep the monk away from any sort of temptation, especially of the carnal kind and encourage great humility. Augustinians believe that all possessions must be shared in such a way that each monk receives no more than what he needs, but acknowledge that a monk from higher society will have need more than a monk from a poor background.
    Augustines are studious and allow a certain degree of freedom of thought. Historically, they became organised into proper orders in the thirteenth century and became important in preserving knowledge through the Middle Ages.
    (health and squalor)

    Monastery of St. Martin
    St. Martin of Tours was born to pagan parents, but became a Christian at an early age. He joined the Roman army at age 15 and was later assigned to a garrison in what was then Gaul as a cavalry officer. Humble and generous, he refused to have his servants wait on him and once gave half his cloak to a beggar.
    After being thrown out of the Roman army for perceived cowardice—his faith prohibited him from taking part in a battle—he studied under Saint Hillary and later did much to convert Roman pagans, sinners and followers of the Arian Heresy.
    Martin later took up life as a hermit, but when the Bishop of Tours died he was chosen as his successor. Humble Martin did not want that title and stayed in the wilderness, but when Rusticus, a wealthy citizen of Tours claimed that his wife was ill he rushed to the city to see her. When he arrived he was caught and consecrated against his will.
    St. Martin of Tours is the patron saint of horsemen and the poor.
    (horses, squalor)

    Monastery of Our Lady of Chartres
    This monastery is intended to protect and service pilgrims to a Marian shrine rather than to house members of a specific religious order.
    It is said that the druids in Chartres had foreseen that they would once come to worship a yet unborn woman and her son, and that they constructed a statue of the Virgin Mary and the infant Jesus long before they had heard of Christ.
    When apostles did arrive, they were welcomed and the druids gladly converted.


    BYZANTIUM
    I only made one monastery for Byzantium, but obviously there could be some for different saints.

    Orthodox Monastery
    The monks and nuns of the Orthodox Church live even more secluded lives than their Catholic counterparts and do not take any part in the lives of laymen. This means that they do not teach, preach or tend to the sick except among themselves, but they are by no means selfish. They help the common man spiritually by praying for his soul. The Brothers and Sisters have chosen a life of asceticism and service to God, and they enjoy a great deal of respect for this.
    (law+happiness?)
    Last edited by Archbaker; 10-09-2005 at 13:16.

  13. #13
    Dungalloigh Brehonda Member Ranika's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tech trees

    If there were multiple monastaries for Catholic factions, the Gaels shouldn't have monastaries to specific saints except Padraigh (Patrick). Otherwise, they had;

    Monastary of the White Oak; Technically a monastary to Saint Patrick, it was a dual monastary that housed both monks and nuns, and the order was legendarily founded by Saint Bride, Patrick's favored student. It was found around a great white oak that was originally a pagan Irish holysite, to convert the nearby families, which was successful. The order did little specific; they produced doctors, missionaries, but most often intended to do general good works and assist however was needed.

    Monastary of the Green Cross; The Order of the Green Cross was actually a vaguely military facility, founded by Saint Finbar in Connaght after his conversion by an unnamed priest. Saint Finbar was a soldier, and an aristocrat. The order was a kind of forerunner to later military brotherhoods, with looser rules and hierarchy; the aristocracy in the regions would sometimes prove their devotion by 'joining' the monastary, ostensibly, as a 'lay brother'. They would provide arms and armor, and were called 'Criosakinna'; 'Cross-Kin' or 'Christ-Kin'. They would also wear a veil of chain armor or scales, to hide their face, representing the surrender of themselves and their personal glory for the good of the church and the Christians in the region. Also was founded the concept of Christian 'Rastriagha', contemplative 'berserkers' who spent their lives in study and learned self-control and the ability to enter a trance-like state described as 'physical emptiness'. This building, in game, would be meant to train the Rastriagha. As an aside, the 'green cross' was eventually absorbed into the Templar, but existed longer. The association with green and Catholic-Irish stems originally from this order. In Scotland, the Criosakinna and Rastriagha never really caught on, but these monastaries did exist, and the monks inhabitting them would have been some manner of 'warrior monks', but don't know if that's good enough for a unit (considering they only appeared to have ever fought pagan Picts, and maybe some Norse).

    Monastary of the Ascended Virgin; Similar to a saintly dedication, but to Mary. The order was founded at Paroghan hill, the site of a Marian vision. It was the first monastary in Ireland built in the 'traditional' sense. Earlier monastaries were like small villages founded around the hermitages of the green martyrs; hermitic monks who went into the wilderness. They would be a series of hovels. This monastary was a large square edifice mostly made of wood, reinforced with a thin stone outer wall. This monastary was essentially a type of hospital, and others of the order sprang up in other regions to assist with illness and the many wounded and infirmed spawned from wars with Norse invaders.
    Ní dheachaigh fial ariamh go hIfreann.


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