Tech trees

**Csatadi** · 09-06-2005, 12:55

Magyars
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- Shrine to Úristen (+10 happiness, requires town), Sacred groove of Úristen (+20 happiness, requires large town), Sanctuary of Úristen (+30 happiness, requires city).
- Shrine to Boldogasszony (+10 happiness, requires town), Sacred groove of Boldogasszony (+20 happiness, requires large town), Sanctuary of Boldogasszony (+30 happiness, requires city).
Note: Úristen means word by word 'Godlord', Boldogasszony means 'Happywoman'. We have only traces of the old religion.
If you use the RTW type shrines Úristen should be a law-type god, and Boldogasszony a fertility type goddess or rather a mother goddess with public health bonus.
Note: Ancillary (priests to both): Táltos (+1 law, +1 public health, maybe a little healing after battles)
Note: the old god were called later 'the god of the Magyars'. We don't know any personal name to Him, maybe it wasn't any.
- Forest clearings (+5 farming, available from start in most provinces - high bonus to indicate how an important improvement this step means compared to no farming buildings), Farms (+8 farming), Crop rotation (+11 farming).
Note: in the Steppes there weren't large forests and in this era the Magyar agriculture was not such great.
- Paths, Mud roads
Note: does it mean the basic roads? I suggest level 1 roads.
- Trader (+20% trade), Market (+40% trade), Merchant (+60% trade)
- Port, Shipyard
- Blacksmith (+1 to all weapons, requires Iron resource), Master blacksmith (+2 to all weapons, requires Iron resource), Armorer (+1 to all armor, will NOT require blacksmith in order to be constructed), Master armorer (+2 to all armor)
- Salt mine (+1 mining), Large salt mine (+2 mining), Copper mine (+2 mining), Large copper mine (+4 mining), Silver mine (+3 mining), Large silver mine (+6 mining), Gold mine (+4 mining), Large gold mine (+8 mining). All mines require their respective resources in the province in order to be possible to build.
- Wooden pallisade, Wooden wall, Large wooden wall (possible to move on top of it), Stone wall (possible to move on top of it)
Note: the nomadic people didn't build walls, but if others are able to build the Magyars should, too.
- Muster field (servant e.g. slav axemen with lower stats (like at Schytians), servant e.g. slav spearmen with lower stats, peasants)
Note: the servants' weapons should be cheap, but I can imagine any type of them.
- Bowmaker (servant e.g. slav bowmen)
- Practise target (requires bowmaker, +1 missile weapon xp), Archery range (+2 missile weapon xp).
- Stables (Magyar horse archers [light horse archers, no armor, fast ZOR: pannonian and neighbouring regions], magyar heavy cavalry [medium cavalry, sword and bow], Magyar Elite Horse Archers [sword and bow, elite]), Cavalry stables (Pecheneg horse archers [ZOR north of Bulgaria up to Kiev area], Magyar úr's cavalry [heavy cavalry, lance and sword]), Elite cavalry stables (-)
Note: ZOR means mercenaries? I don't see any reason separate the Magyar, Kabar and Székely horse archers.

- Cavalry training field (+1 to cavalry xp, requires Stables), Cavalry training grounds (+2 to cavalry xp, requires Cavalry stables), Cavalry academy (+3 to cavalry xp, requires Elite cavalry stables).

The Christianity problem is not solved in this tech tree!!! But I think it is not only a Magyar handling problem. Knowing about it I can suggest things.
Instead of more happiness buildings (I cannot imagine anything.) I suggest an ancillary, the Regös. It is like the celtic bard, and should give +1 influence and +5 happiness. They should come very easy.
I hope Fergus will find out something about the heavy cavalry I didn't change anything in that part.
I suggest in general the Magyars should be at a power level 30-40% of the Khazar empire.

OLD VERSION
Magyars
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I can't find any info on magyar gods, I need help with that.
- Shrine to X (+10 happiness, requires town, ?), Sacred groove of X (+20 happiness, requires large town, ?), Sanctuary of X (+30 happiness, requires city, ?).
- MORE HAPPINESS BUILDINGS NEEDED
- Forest clearings (+5 farming, available from start in most provinces - high bonus to indicate how an important improvement this step means compared to no farming buildings), Farms (+8 farming), Crop rotation (+11 farming), Farming technology (+14 farming).
- Proper sewage (+10% health bonus), Herbal medicine (+15% health bonus).
- Paths, Mud roads
- Trader (+20% trade), Market (+40% trade), Merchant (+60% trade)
- Port, Shipyard, Dockyard (all these enable training of better and better ships)
- Blacksmith (+1 to all weapons, requires Iron resource), Master blacksmith (+2 to all weapons, requires Iron resource), Armorer (+1 to all armor, will NOT require blacksmith in order to be constructed), Master armorer (+2 to all armor)
- Salt mine (+1 mining), Large salt mine (+2 mining), Copper mine (+2 mining), Large copper mine (+4 mining), Silver mine (+3 mining), Large silver mine (+6 mining), Gold mine (+4 mining), Large gold mine (+8 mining). All mines require their respective resources in the province in order to be possible to build.
- Wooden pallisade, Wooden wall, Large wooden wall (possible to move on top of it), Stone wall (possible to move on top of it)

- Muster field (javelinmen, town watch, peasants), Town militia (slav javelinmen, urban militia, +5% law).
- Bowmaker (militia bowmen, bowmen), Bowmaker's workshop (militia archers, magyar archers), Bowmaker's guild (militia archer +1 xp, magyar archers +1 xp), Master bowmaker (crossbowmen).
- Practise target (requires bowmaker, +1 missile weapon xp), Archery range (+2 missile weapon xp).
- Spearmaker (spear militia), Spearmaker's workshop (spearmen), Spearmaker's guild (-), Master spearmaker (-).
- Horse farmer (militia swordscavalry, militia spearcavalry), Stables (kabar horse archers [light horse archers, no armor, fast], magyar heavy cavalry [medium cavalry, sword and bow], szekely [sword and bow, elite, ZOR: pannonian region]), Cavalry stables (pecheneg horse archers [ZOR north of Bulgaria up to Kiev area], magyar úr's cavalry [heavy cavalry, lance and sword]), Elite cavalry stables (-)
- Cavalry training field (+1 to cavalry xp, requires Stables), Cavalry training grounds (+2 to cavalry xp, requires Cavalry stables), Cavalry academy (+3 to cavalry xp, requires Elite cavalry stables).
- Swordsmaker (-), Swordsmaker's workshop (maygar swordsmen [very light troops]), Swordsmaker's guild (-), Master swordsmaker (-)
- Barracks (requires Swordsmaker's workshop, +1 swordsmen xp), Army barracks (requires Swordmaker's guild, +2 swordsmen xp)
- Siege engineer (requires town, ballista), Siege engineer's workshop (requires large town, mangonel), Siege engineer's guild (-)

**Rodion Romanovich** · 09-06-2005, 17:35

Ok, that's good info.

ZOR doesn't mean mercenaries, it means that the units are only recruitable in certain provinces of the map (Rome Total Realism mod uses it, for example). Usually, that's the case for auxiliaries or ethnical groups fighting with their own traditional equipment rather than the more centralized army would use, or if there for any other reason seems good to restrict recruitment to a smaller area.

About magyar power balancing etc., I had in mind having them much less powerful than the Khazars, but there'll be some easy conquests for them with easily accessible provinces to the west, with very weak rebel garrisons in them. Hopefully that will make them move west rather than start fighting the Khazars, and behave more historically correct when controlled by the AI. I'm sure we'll find some good way of balancing them.

Anyway, I'm waiting for Forgus to come up with his suggestion before I'll do anything more about the final version of the magyar tech tree. That's why Christianity conversion isn't implemented yet.

**Meneldil** · 09-06-2005, 20:47

Well, if we make the Magyars and Khazars allied in the beginning (as they were in reallity), I think the AI won't break the alliance early on, so the Magyar will have to move to the south/west.

**Csatadi** · 09-06-2005, 21:16

Thanks for ZOR!
In the theory the Magyar Horse Archers and the Elite ones should be ZOR in Etelköz (Ukraine) AND in the whole Carpathian basin.
But in the reality of the game the Magyars can settle in any part of the map.
This is a reason not being a ZOR-type army.
I do not know if you know it or not, there were Magyar tribes who remain in the Khazar empire. After conquering the Carpathian basin the two parts of the nation lived in different way. In 1231 a monk found the orient Magyars yet. Interesting fact.

The Bulgarians and/or the Pechenegs should attack the Magyars. The first attack can be in the beginning. The second only in 895, you know. But I think in every game will bring other results.
HIstorically the Magyars were the protectorate of the Khazars but I do not know how would it work in the game.

**Forgus** · 09-07-2005, 14:35

Shame on me but my version of the tech tree is still in progress.... :-(

**skeletor** · 09-07-2005, 16:01

Originally Posted by Meneldil

Well, if we make the Magyars and Khazars allied in the beginning (as they were in reallity), I think the AI won't break the alliance early on, so the Magyar will have to move to the south/west.

I thought the Magyars were allied to the Muslims at this point, in fear of the Khazars.... or was that the Bulgars?

Anyway, having them allied is probably the best way to make them expand west.

We must allso see what the "horde" feature brings. If BI can make the Vandals start as a horde migrating to a cetain point, this might allso be an option for them. Giving them an extrarinary startpoint.

-Skel-

**GoreBag** · 09-07-2005, 18:15

I agree that the "horde" feature should be used for the Magyars at the beginning of the game, but as it stands, this cannot be modded in. For the sake of simplicity, the Magyars should have those two provinces and stay allied to the Khazars. However, I think that once the team gets BI and can have the Magyars begin play as a horde, they should still be allied to the Khazars.