Faction symbols and banners

**Rodion Romanovich** · 12-05-2005, 13:02

Originally Posted by tutankamon

Lovely faction symbols they are so much better than the originals you are inqredible... but I was wondering... have you realized that the Normmanic realm actually where founded by a Norweigan jarl because the french king wanted him to stop his fellow vikings from raiding france so they shoulden't be playale from the start because that could give some funny outcomes

We have thought of that. Normandy will be unplayable and spawn on an event. We might release a small package that mods them to playable for those who want it, it's just five minutes of work to do that. But in the main release they'll be unplayable and spawn on an event.

**Justiciar** · 12-24-2005, 12:08

You're keeping the faction name "Englisc" then? It should be the Kingdom of Wessex, in truth, shouldn't it? The kingdoms were united under Athelstan in the mid 10th century.. which is about half of the way through the campaign's time-frame, isn't it? If it starts around 800 AD, they should only really be holding southern england.

**Justiciar** · 12-24-2005, 12:20

To add to this.. will the Englisc have Housecarls? They only really used them outside of the Danelaw and York when Canute ascended the throne. I also recall reading that the Fyrd would be the Englisc 'special' unit. Weren't they just a rabble of none-proffessional soldiers?

**Rodion Romanovich** · 12-24-2005, 12:22

Yes, both Englisc and Wessex are names used in the period, and it's difficult to choose. Alfred the Great, which leads the faction at the start date, has in some found documents called himself "ruler of anglo-saxons", which adds a third alternative for faction name. But it's generally said that when King Egbert had defeated Mercia and the Northumbrians accepted his overlordship (in the early 9th century), the ruler of Wessex used the title "King of England", or in old language, "King of [the] Englisc". It seems fairly reasonable to use the term Kingdom of Englisc, as there's confusion on which term was used before Athelstan, but the name was certainly established from his reign and on.

**Rodion Romanovich** · 12-24-2005, 12:26

The fyrd was before Alfred the Great a rabble of militia. During Alfred the Great, reorganizations made the fyrd into a professional force (making the burwaran take over local militia force tasks such as local garrisoning), but after his death it again degraded into a militia. The housecarles were incorporated into the armies quite late, after they learnt about it's effectiveness from fighting the Danish huskarls. There were both butescarles, who were mostly mercenaries of Danish origin, and housecarles recruited from the saxon population and trained in the Danish housecarle fighting style.

We'll use many different techniques to try and reflect these things in the mod, so that for instance housecarles won't dominate the battlefield (militia in the shape of the fyrd did in the late period), and make sure the housecarles don't appear too early (we might even lock the unit to not appear until Danish housecarles have been met in battle, in the same manner EB unlocks cataphracts for Arche Seleukeia, I believe, after they've met the cataphracts of other factions in battle).

**Justiciar** · 12-24-2005, 13:44

Bretwalda was the title used by the Kings of Wessex from Egbert onwards, I believe.. I've never come across "King of Englisc" before, I must admit. Still, good to see you doing your research. Keep up the good work.

**Csatadi** · 01-03-2006, 10:03

Originally Posted by skeletor

I just tested something... It wold have been cool giving the Khazars colored glass in their banner. This is just an ugly test tho..

The cineese spoke of the pople living west of Armenia that were masters at meking lass.. What do you think?

I found this old flag plan on the forum. Is is now real a flag?
Because historians assign this picture as the first portrayal of a Magyar warrior. I suppose they think on the rider.

**ScionTheWorm** · 01-03-2006, 10:33

according to skel it's only a test and I doubt he meant it to be used since he made another khazar flag after that. I personally find glass in banners weird.

I think we should use the turul for the magyar banner, or one of the other "national symbols" (I believe there were some other choices)

**Csatadi** · 01-03-2006, 11:29

Originally Posted by ScionTheWorm

according to skel it's only a test and I doubt he meant it to be used since he made another khazar flag after that. I personally find glass in banners weird.

I think we should use the turul for the magyar banner, or one of the other "national symbols" (I believe there were some other choices)

Ok. But flags and symbols can be different thats why I wrote.
I also found the original motif of the Magyar symbol. It is more lucid than yours. If you have some free time can you light the background? It was hard to observe if the bird has one or two heads. The original is clear and visible.