Units

[Rodion Romanovich]

This is a temporary thread for the discussion of units. When we make more progress on the tech tree lists we'll probably need to make one units thread per faction.

NOTE! This thread is not about discussing WHICH units should be included. That is discussed in the tech trees thread. This thread is for discussing looks, armament etc. of the units that we've already decided to include. A thread for discussing work in progress as well as finished units.

Some notes:
- The warcry ability will not be used for any units. We'll use a different method for modelling a warcry before running into battle
- Skins should be made to look realistic first, and colors needed to recognize faction should be added on shields or elsewhere where they don't affect the look of the warrior itself too much, when possible.
- Peasant and militia should usually stick to dirty or simple clothing with little other colors than offwhite, grey and brown etc. Richer troops such as royal, non-feudal troops, byzantine tagmata, jarl's hirds etc. will, when historically accurate have more colorful clothing. In those cases the faction color can be used also on the clothing.
- For units without shields we'll have to find a clever way of including the faction color without changing the skin too much. Perhaps by only adding a slight trace of the faction color to the skin.
- Faction colors are still being discussed in the faction symbols thread. I guess no skins here can be totally completed until that discussion has been completed so we know what colors to add to the skin.

[Ianofsmeg16]

said this before on the original thread, dumnonian cavalry!!!!! with scale armour and excellent saxon killing capabilities btw congrats on getting in the hosted mods thing

[oj121]

Justaquestion to the creators, What units have you got for the Welsh? Just thought i could help in some way with the list if i know what you have already got. Thanks

[skeletor]

Skeletors Skins..

Will be updated.

[ScionTheWorm]

Ok here is some units, just to get started. Please correct me.

Norway:
- Bondi
- Karl
- Geirrmen
- Landsmen
- Berserkers
- Huskarl
- Archers
- Raiders
- Hird
- Jomsviking
- Birkebeiner (english..?)

Saxons:
- Spearmen
- Armoured Spearmen
- Warband
- Light Cavalry
- Skirmishers

Welsh:
- Longbowmen
- Cavalry
- Swordsmen
- Skirmishers

France:
- Spearmen (light, armoured)
- Light, heavy cavalry
- Skirmishers

Magyar
- Light archers
- Horsemen
- Lancers
- Swordmen
- Szekely
- Heavy Infantry

...

[Wikingus]

Should Jomsvikings actually be a unit? It's not like there were that many of them...

[ScionTheWorm]

Should Jomsvikings actually be a unit? It's not like there were that many of them...

Maybe as mercenarys? Well I don't know, I'm no researcher. As I said, correct me.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Hi all. maybe didn't explain it so well above but:
- The unit lists are discussed in the tech trees thread. I refer to that thread for more info. The first post in that thread is updated with the latest plans for units and tech trees.
- This thread is about discussing and showing units under construction as well as finished ones, and more about discussion about looks and armament etc. of the units. The tech trees thread is where we decide WHICH units to have, here we discuss the actual making of those units.

[oj121]

The Welsh could do with some proper spearmen both light and armoured as they did borrow ideas from Rome and then the invading Saxons. Also the Welsh should have an elite units much like the forresters of Gaul. Armed with a longbow with higher stats than the normal longbowmen and very good melee capabilities. As for cavalry, light cavalry should be as good if not slightly better than their Saxon neighbours yet there were very few examples of heavy cavalry until the attempt to face up to the Normans on a pitched battlefield on a regular basis by around 1100's. Yet again due to the only lands being able to support a large amount of horses being in the south these werefew and far between

The Welsh were expert raiders and ambushers and i think that their troops should have this advantage also.

[ScionTheWorm]

UPDATED SAXON FYRDMEN

[Wikingus]

UPDATED SAXON FYRDMEN

Love them!

[skeletor]

[ScionTheWorm]

This is another update where some changes will be made (the chain mail mainly, the shield for sure, and other things you may dislike). Anyway you get the idea with the robe-thing (can't remember the word in english), and yes, added some more hair in the face.

UPDATED SAXON ARMOURED FYRDMEN

[ScionTheWorm]

Hmmm that image didn't seem to work right now... anyway

Several factions shall be able to reqruit Catholic Fanatics right? (with clubs?)

Was thinking about modelling this and eventually skin it, but do you have some concept-art or maybe only a description? I guess you don't want it like in mtw

[Rodion Romanovich]

UPDATED SAXON FYRDMEN

Wonderful!

Re clubmen: Well, I don't know exactly how they were going to look. Also I don't know what our historian says about their historical accuracy, but they'd be fun to include IMO. One of the first things we need to know is whether they should look like peasants or have richer-looking clothes before we know what clothes to give them. The club I'm already sure should be a wooden club without any sharp stuff pointing out. Hopefully that's enough info so you can at least model the clubman, but I'm afraid it's still too little to enable you to skin it. I'll be back with more info.

[Ianofsmeg16]

sorry to sound repetitive......Dumnonian cavalry!!! I've been reading Bernard cornwells Warlord chronicles about arthur and i am obssesed with them

[Rodion Romanovich]

Ok, but were they still used around 843 to 1000 AD?

[ScionTheWorm]

Ok hope this image shows

UPDATED SAXON ARMOURED FYRDMEN




I'm going to use my resulting armoured fyrdman as a base for saxon cavalry, so this one has to be perfect (except the shield). The chain mail is possibly going to be used as a template for all chain mail in the game, so critisize(!!);
Is the chain mail
- too red/too black/white?
- too dark/light?
- too small/large chains (smaller/larger black holes)?
- too much/little shiny?

[ScionTheWorm]

- For units without shields we'll have to find a clever way of including the faction color without changing the skin too much. Perhaps by only adding a slight trace of the faction color to the skin.

I vote for no faction color to the skin. It's really nothing confusing when there are banners on the field..

Re clubmen: Well, I don't know exactly how they were going to look. Also I don't know what our historian says about their historical accuracy, but they'd be fun to include IMO. One of the first things we need to know is whether they should look like peasants or have richer-looking clothes before we know what clothes to give them. The club I'm already sure should be a wooden club without any sharp stuff pointing out. Hopefully that's enough info so you can at least model the clubman, but I'm afraid it's still too little to enable you to skin it. I'll be back with more info.

I'll do it later then. Can do some more saxons.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Ok hope this image shows

UPDATED SAXON ARMOURED FYRDMEN




I'm going to use my resulting armoured fyrdman as a base for saxon cavalry, so this one has to be perfect (except the shield). The chain mail is possibly going to be used as a template for all chain mail in the game, so critisize(!!);
Is the chain mail
- too red/too black/white?
- too dark/light?
- too small/large chains (smaller/larger black holes)?
- too much/little shiny?

The new skin looks very good IMO. I think shinyness is good, as is the light/darkness, and the coloring. The size of the "chain rings" (or whatever you call those...) is a little large IMO, and they're a little too square shaped. If it's possible I'd like it if they could be made more circular and slightly smaller, but perhaps if that's done it'll only look blurry in-game. If you could make a test skin with those changes we can see if it's possible to make a good-looking skin with smaller rings. The one you posted above is good enough to use IMO, so if the test skin with smaller and more circular rings doesn't look good the one you posted above can certainly be used.

[ScionTheWorm]

Update, frontal shot: slightly wider but smaller in height rings



I wonder if multiple models for one unit where each model is from a certain distance takes care of the smoothing, or if it's only for performance.

[Rodion Romanovich]

I think the new one was even better. Great work!

[ScionTheWorm]

UPDATED SAXON CAVALRY

[ScionTheWorm]

Ok I know cavalry needs some finishing but I don't want to do a lot of work on something you may dislike.

So next to skin is the Saxon Huscarl. I don't know what shield to give him (long, round, not a shield but a twohanded weapon..?), but there will be one with a sword and one with an axe (see picture). Long beards and lot's of protection, redly clothing (?). I'm REALLY no expert on what units should look like so help me.

[Ranika]

Dumnonians were no longer considered anything special by the 820s; their cavalry techniques and training had been absorbed by those who'd use it. They simply weren't that important.

[ScionTheWorm]

SAXON HUSCARLS, FIRST STAGE
Here is my first attempt on Saxon Huscarls with axe and long shield. Looks good in battle too.
Base: Triarii (skeletors version), added:
- Chain Mail-"hood"
- Long axe
- Longer shield, narrowing at bottom
- Longer shirt (bottom) and shirt-sleeves

Am I far off here?

[skeletor]

Dame Scion



Do you ever sleap? GREAT WORK

-Skel-

[Ianofsmeg16]

Ok, but were they still used around 843 to 1000 AD?

probably yes, by welshmen who thought they were arthur reincarnated

[Rodion Romanovich]

SAXON HUSCARLS, FIRST STAGE
Here is my first attempt on Saxon Huscarls with axe and long shield. Looks good in battle too.
Base: Triarii (skeletors version), added:
- Chain Mail-"hood"
- Long axe
- Longer shield, narrowing at bottom
- Longer shirt (bottom) and shirt-sleeves

Am I far off here?

Great!

[Jarlabanke]

On the Varangians: AFAIK they were often refered to as men with axes rather than swords.