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Thread: Units

  1. #31
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    I thought so too, but our historian said they were swordsmen. I however think they could be heavy axemen of the same type as huscarles, but they'll have better stats as they are a level 4 unit and also historically were a chosen elite force. I'll edit so they are axemen instead.
    Under construction...

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  2. #32

    Default Re: Units

    They look like axes to me...

    Age of vikings and fanatics: Total War

  3. #33
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    Quote Originally Posted by skeletor
    They look like axes to me...
    Thanks to the magical editing function
    Under construction...

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  4. #34

    Default Re: Units

    http://users.bigpond.net.au/quarfwa/...skylitzes1.htm
    One of the few pictures with them on. Of course just like most scandinavian "regiments" their equipment was probably quite mixed, and are in Byzantine sources said to have used both axes,spears and swords. But the axes does seem to have set them apart in the eyes Byzantians.

  5. #35
    Arbeit macht fleisch Member ScionTheWorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    Skeletor: Should I make a model of the Sutton Hoo-helmet? It's Anglo-Saxon from the 7th century (called Grim-Helm I think). It seems like it was very similar to helmets worn by the Swedish (don't know exactly when but think it was a little bit later), so the model may be used for them too. I thought about giving it to the Saxon Heavy Cavalry, just to give them some bad-ass feeling.. of course this is some work, so I won't do it if you guys think it's unhistorical (can't find sources on 8th/9th century helmets, I think it can't be proved that they weren't using this one that late).

    Hehe. Anyway, I think it would look very cool.


  6. #36

    Default Re: Units

    The swedish helmets were pretty much temporary, soem porbably earlier though.

  7. #37
    Arbeit macht fleisch Member ScionTheWorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    Okay then maybe this will be better for them anyway.

    Early Saxon Helmet (8th-10th Century)

    Let me know if you want the Grim one anyway. Maybe for the king

  8. #38

    Default Re: Units

    I have thougt of using it for an early Saxon unit, maybe for the generals bodyguard. It wold be cool using the marian reforms as creation of knighthood. Then we can have earlyer, and later unit's. It certainly wold be cool having a unit with it - Pre knight Generals bodyguards.

    Have anyone given the reforms any thoughts?

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  9. #39
    Forever British Member King Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    I have thought about it, the only factions i have thought of that could do it would be the vikings and the saxons if there is more than one saxon faction on the british isles it could work there.
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  10. #40
    Forever British Member King Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    Can you post the Huscarl again please, the link is broken.
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  11. #41
    Arbeit macht fleisch Member ScionTheWorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    So strange... ImageShack have lost two screens of mine.. don't know if this is common

    Reposted Saxon Huscarl


    God, when will I become a member???

  12. #42
    Gwledig of the Brythons Member Agraes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    I have read somewhere that the Sutton Hoo helmet was probably made by a celtic artisan for a saxon warlord (cause of the motives on it).

    You might use it for the saxon general (I will certainly do a such thing for my mod Arthurian : Total War).

  13. #43
    Forever British Member King Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    Love the skin Scion, only suggestion i think the shield should go on the back then they should have double handed axe.
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  14. #44
    Arbeit macht fleisch Member ScionTheWorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    Quote Originally Posted by King Ragnar
    Love the skin Scion, only suggestion i think the shield should go on the back then they should have double handed axe.
    That can easely be done, I think it will look better too - you just have to inform me. Does the size of the axe look ok?

  15. #45
    Arbeit macht fleisch Member ScionTheWorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    Hehe couldn't help posting this

    PEASANTS UNDER THE BUTCHER's KNIFE


    Wonder what that scene would look like after 1 sec in real life.
    Only work in progress though... will make axe-head smaller. But I have problems with the size of the shield, looks odd from behind too. Suggestions?

  16. #46
    Arbeit macht fleisch Member ScionTheWorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    Just played around with cavalry helmets.. applied a filter so you won't bother the details, would this kind of helmet fit the (early) heavy saxon cavalry?



    That's it for today

  17. #47
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    I think the shape of the helmet looks very good!
    Under construction...

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  18. #48
    Arbeit macht fleisch Member ScionTheWorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    To Skeletor (and other's that may have an opinion on this):

    While doing some researching on units I found this..

    From http://members.tripod.com/Preachan/knights1.html
    "
    Norman Knight C. 1066

    For hundreds of years, the basic form of body Armour consisted of the chain-mail shirt, called the hauberk, or byrnie. In one form or another, this was an essential piece of body defence until the late fifteenth century. We have ample evidence in the Bayeux tapestry of the equipment worn and carried by the Norman knights who rode to victory at Hastings; they had knee-length mail hauberks with elbow-length sleeves, split at front and rear for ease when riding, conical helmets with a nasal bar, and leather or padded cloth greaves. Only very high ranking lords wore mail stockings to protect their legs and feet. Norman knights carried long, kite-shaped shields, often decorated with swirling shapes like this one, though there is no evidence that these decorations were associated with specific knights or families in the heraldic sense. Their main weapons were a sword and a long lance; the Saxons, by contrast, are often depicted wielding battle-axes and carrying smaller, round shields.

    "
    Okay this is relevant if the description of saxons from the last sentence in the quotation is not only "depicted", but also part of history.

    Looks like Norman knights is more like the one I modelled and skinned that were supposed to be saxon, and saxons did have round smaller shields and battle-axes it seems like(!).. should these have spears..? and am I wrong when I recall that you said teardropped for all saxons?

    when I think it over the ones I made are heavy later cavalry, so maybe only the lighter cavalry will have battle-axes. anyway, about the shield, any thoughts? This is actually important since the tear-dropped shield need some modelling.

  19. #49
    Arbeit macht fleisch Member ScionTheWorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    Saxon peasants


    Working on a peasant model for the northern factions. Have here given them some cloth around the neck, maybe it should be removed.. heavy influenced by my fyrdman, but probably gonna change him a little anyway. No deadly metal on the edge of the spear, only something the peasant made home at his farm. I guess the shield would have low stats (breaks easily), same with his wooden spear, making him a very weak unit.

    Main reason I post this is to get an opinion on the squared, wooden shield. I thought it looked nice

  20. #50
    Arbeit macht fleisch Member ScionTheWorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    Concept art

    The Battle Of Deheubarth 903 A.D
    Welsh fighting saxon peasants


    (Yes I made that up, and yes it's a screenshot. Hmm sorry I'm on a posting rampage, frustrated for having such a booooooooooring saturday AARGH )

  21. #51
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    Quote Originally Posted by ScionTheWorm
    Saxon peasants


    Working on a peasant model for the northern factions. Have here given them some cloth around the neck, maybe it should be removed.. heavy influenced by my fyrdman, but probably gonna change him a little anyway. No deadly metal on the edge of the spear, only something the peasant made home at his farm. I guess the shield would have low stats (breaks easily), same with his wooden spear, making him a very weak unit.

    Main reason I post this is to get an opinion on the squared, wooden shield. I thought it looked nice
    I think that's a good model and skin for the town watch units or militia spearman. Only suggestion is that the tip of the spear should be in brighter wooden color. It should look like the spear is just a cut down tree with it's bark still on, except for the tip where there shouldn't be any bark and the fresh wood should be visible.
    Under construction...

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  22. #52

    Default Re: Units

    It looks good, even though I must say I would've prefered more "conventional" equipment.

  23. #53
    Arbeit macht fleisch Member ScionTheWorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
    I think that's a good model and skin for the town watch units or militia spearman. Only suggestion is that the tip of the spear should be in brighter wooden color. It should look like the spear is just a cut down tree with it's bark still on, except for the tip where there shouldn't be any bark and the fresh wood should be visible.
    Okay but will town watch or militia spearmen then be the weakest unit? Note that the shield is not a part of the model, just an idea I had to try out, using the alpha channel in ps. Can you tell me who the weakest unit will be for the northern factions (scots,irish,welsh, saxon, vikings)? I know we agreed on not having peasants in the way they were in vanilla, but thought there would be a almost peasant-like unit for each faction. But hey if that's what we call town watch it's ok for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlabanke
    It looks good, even though I must say I would've prefered more "conventional" equipment.
    Knifes and forks? To that I don't agree.

  24. #54
    Arbeit macht fleisch Member ScionTheWorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    By the way, if you want I can make the spears really crappy by making them a shorter and giving them some bending here and there so they look like they have just been chopped down.

  25. #55
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    Quote Originally Posted by ScionTheWorm
    By the way, if you want I can make the spears really crappy by making them a shorter and giving them some bending here and there so they look like they have just been chopped down.
    Yes, shorter spears sounds good. Perhaps not too much bending though, as it might look bad when too many soldiers with the same bending on their spears are standing next to each other.

    BTW, the shared town watch will be the weakest infantry unit in the game. Also the militia spearman shared unit should be almost as weak and very similar in looks IMO, but with slightly longer spears and therefore also better stats vs cavalry. Perhaps the town watch shouldn't just have sharpened cut down trees, but slightly better spears, as they're partly a standing force for some of the factions. But the militia spearmen should probably have that primitive spears. And those militia spearmen will be perfect to simulate peasants in revolts and brigand armies etc.
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 06-12-2005 at 11:35.
    Under construction...

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  26. #56

    Default Re: Units

    I mean that I believe most people could have gotten their hands on a real spear back in those days.

  27. #57
    Arbeit macht fleisch Member ScionTheWorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    Ok, forget about the other posts and let me represent
    Saxon Town Watch



    Tried with a round wooden shield, but didn't think it worked any better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlabanke
    I mean that I believe most people could have gotten their hands on a real spear back in those days.
    That wasn't my call. See the techtree thread

  28. #58
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlabanke
    I mean that I believe most people could have gotten their hands on a real spear back in those days.
    Yes, that's true. So only the unit militia spearmen should probably have them. They'll be furthest down in the spearmaker building complex for the frankish factions who already have pretty good cities from start, and will only appear on battlefields seldom, and they'll also be in brigand and rebel armies. Actually a metal point isn't needed when wanting to impale lightly or not armored opponents unless actual fighting continues for a very long time and the tip is damaged a lot. So I think troops who wanted to quickly get to battle and didn't want to bring farm tools would probably cut down a small tree and sharpen the edge of it. I don't think it's historically inaccurate with some troops, especially rebels, to use such weapons.
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  29. #59
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    Quote Originally Posted by ScionTheWorm
    Ok, forget about the other posts and let me represent
    Saxon Town Watch



    Tried with a round wooden shield, but didn't think it worked any better.
    I think the square shield is fine, but it depends on historical accuracy of it. But really, if it's going to be a model used by all factions, and town watch is mostly for garrisoning, then I don't think it matters much what shape the shield has. I think we can consider that model complete
    Under construction...

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  30. #60
    Arbeit macht fleisch Member ScionTheWorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Units

    then the guys over would be
    Saxon militia spearmen

    hehe

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