Units

[ScionTheWorm]

Question:

I have some plans for the viking standard... In ancient Norse times in Scandinavia, a normal way to insult pople, was to add a horsehead on top of a stick. And write rouns with insulting stuff for the time like gay, zolofile aso on the stick, and point it at the one you wanted to insult. I just thought it wold look cool as a standard with a man carrying the horsehead to insult the enemy. Horses were allso an important item in Norse rituals for sacrifice and more.

Thoughts?

-Skel-

If it was very common to battle, I think a horsehead for the norse banner would be cool. (the little one.. is it captainbanner?)
like cutting out the head of a horsemodel and pasting it on the banner stick. but I think it shall have happened in many battles if going to be used.

[Rodion Romanovich]

I think the officers unit can be made to hold a standard, like some priest carrying a cross in Chivalry total war had.

[skeletor]

Each faction can have 3 "followers" lesser General, standard, and musician. I could add the horsehead man as a musician, and only givethem to special viking units like joms, berzerks, and birkebeiners.

-Skel-

[ScionTheWorm]

i really like the idea when it's restricted like that. make it a little bloody

[Incongruous]

Saxon Huscarles were renowned for their axemenship and were double handed axemen.

[Rodion Romanovich]

But if we make them two-handed, they can't use their shield, and then they can't form a shield wall... Actually I didn't realize that until now. What do the rest of the team think? I think the shield wall aspect is quite important.

[skeletor]

I allways had the impression of the shieldwall being formed primary as spearmen with large shields, and in battle, when the walls started braking up, the heavy axenen charged through to make gaps and openings in it with broute force. Their large axes couldnt be too handy in close combat, but very well suited for splintering shields, and slashing aside walls of spears.
(See the shieldwall painting in the "conceptart" thread.)

Ofcourse, during scirmishes prebattle, they would use their shields to protect themselves, but thats not possible to portray in the RTR engine.
I wold go for them having their shiels strapped on their back, and the large twohanded danish axe.

-Skel-

[Incongruous]

The Fyrd formed the shield wall, while the Huscarls stayed close to their lord.
At the battle of Senlac aka. Hastings the Huscarls fought at the centre of the Saxon line and held their own until they were all wiped out, they were formidible even at clos quaters. There are accounts that stat, even though the Huscarls had hardly sufficient room to swing their axes they did so and in the process would kill three to five enemies at once and then attack a knight by cutting his horses head in half.
These guys were the best axemen around by the time of Hastings, it was said that not even the danes could match their skill.

[Incongruous]

Someone was talking about the generals unit having a standard bearer, in the case of the Saxons, this would be really cool and realistic.

[ScionTheWorm]

I think I'll start skinning and modelling a little again. Will continute with scots/irish and maybe, if skeletor allows, try the magyars and bulgars. do you wan't to do them skel, or may I? I choose these because they have the most detailed description (thanks ranika and bopa). will start with low quality troops and work myself upwards.

will make new finished units presentationable in faction thread, when we'e coming to that. will also finish faction icons, make them ready for in-game.

cheers

[skeletor]

Just start with whatever you whant..

I have started some model tests of heavyer Khazar mounts and Royal Cavalery, so if you start from the buttom, we can just meet on the middle. I guess the Magyars, and Khazars can use mutch of the same models.

I have focused most on the vikings to get them finished, so just go ahead with whatever you want to do

-Skel-

[ScionTheWorm]

nice. time to get some units in place.

nice sig! i do not have my old fonts either, therefore my new alternative one. but will do.

now hurry gimme the screenshots

[skeletor]

Thnx Scion...

I'll get the screens later today when i get home (in 4-5 hours )

- It takes some time posting them all, but i'll try to get it all done..

-Skel-

[ScionTheWorm]

use imageshack and give me the adresses. that's easiest for me because of the firewall and probably for you too.

[Agraes]

All those units are very very nice

I think axemen can look better with a beard (a different color for each faction ?).

[Incongruous]

OOh! Beards, manly, arggh.
Yeah beards would look cool, blond for the Englisc, also, if you can, all the Englisc units should have moustaches.

[ScionTheWorm]

I think they now have beards..

OOh! Beards, manly, arggh.
Yeah beards would look cool, blond for the Englisc, also, if you can, all the Englisc units should have moustaches.

I appreciate a good moustache, but there will be some variations.

I think that is what a CA guy told to the german and briton skinner, damn! that's what I call lack of creativity. not even changes in haircolor

[ScionTheWorm]

I'm doing these byzantine klibanophoroi, but have just started. Anyway, I was "inspired" by that osprey thing on this forum, but I wish to give him another thing than this coat (and leg/arm armour if possible). Would this guy only dress like that? Ehm what I'm asking is, does anybody know how this units outfit would or could be, that isn't from that picture? Fancy things are welcome too.

[Incongruous]

So Scion, can you post any screenies on the forums?

[ScionTheWorm]

Well there will be a lot of irish and scots coming up, probably at least 20. But not yet, want to do a lot before posting them

I think about only posting preview style, no screenshots yet.

Skeletor have finished 5-10 viking units that I know of.

[Incongruous]

Those units you Pm'd were awsome, and I have to say, thats probably the best skinning I have ever seen, no shit dude.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Hey guys, I saw you talking about your shieldwall formation and a problem with Huscarles becuase they have their shields on their backs.

Here's a thought, in vanilla Rome if you order a phalanx to attack in normal formation they switch to swords and charge. Well couldn't you have it so that while in shieldwall they used swords and shields and when out of shieldwall they used axes. So actually have axes as secondary weapons.

I don't know if you've thought of this but I thought it might be worth mentioning.

[Incongruous]

We've decided to put this MOD out for BI.
Also we might have two Husscarl units, swordsmen, who can form the shield wall, and double handed axemen, who are more shock troops.

[Incongruous]

All Englisc units should be clean shaven except for moustaches.
Thegns need to be included as a unit. These men were the middle strata of society part of the nobility and formed a core elite, oh, and the name Husscarl should be Housecarl, sorry.
Also there is mention of a marine like troop called the Butscarls, these men would have been quick shock troops used to attack Viking settlements along the coast of England and sometimes to carry out seaborne raids upon the Welsh principalities. There too would have been somekind of Englisc Longbow contingent within the army, the practice became well known in the areas around Kent and many Cornish were used as longbowmen.

[King Ragnar]

and the name Husscarl should be Housecarl, sorry.
.

Its Huscarl, you just put an extra s in the first time.

[Incongruous]

No by the early 10th century they were called Housecarls. Husscarl was a more Nordic/Scandanavian version of the name.

[King Ragnar]

ok my mistake :D

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

So my idea wouldn't work?

[skeletor]

Actually Wigferth Ironwall, i think it wold work fine, the same issue works for any unit that wold have a 1st and 2nd weapon, we just need to have the right animation. We haven't seen the new BI shieldwall formations yet, but i guess their just a modification of the phalanx. The problem with having swords in a phalanx formation, is that they wold still behave like they have a spear, and only use it for stabbing, with their hands way behind their waist. We wold have to give then very long swords

It wold be easy to find out, just give some random swordunit the phalanxability, and see how it works..

I have allready given some of the viking unit's a small axe as secondary weapon instead of the dagger, and with CA's slashing animations, it works fine

-Skel-

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Sorry, I thought I was being ignored because my idea was pointless. Now, I should say that all your models look great guys.

Oh, and they do.