Campaign map

[Meneldil]

Could you put a map with these cities' emplacement ?

[Csatadi]

My atlas book is too large and I haven't got a scanner at home.

this one is similar to my map:
The Carpathian Basin before the Hungarian Conquest in the 9th century
http://mek.oszk.hu/01900/01993/html/...061gf95035.jpg

Other maps
wander of the Magyars
http://www.mek.iif.hu/porta/szint/eg...der/wander.gif

Magyars, Byzantium etc.
http://mek.oszk.hu/01900/01993/html/index6.html

The Carpathian Basin before the Hungarian Conquest in the 9th century
very simple map:
http://www.mek.iif.hu/porta/szint/eg...t9/carpat9.gif

Other maps
Serbia
http://www.answers.com/main/content/...rb_lands03.jpg

Turkic history - many turkic people. Be aware Pechenegs are called here to Besenyos.
http://www.turkicworld.org/

slavs:
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.co.../0102slavs.jpg

[Meneldil]

Btw, Pechenegs aren't a playable faction in the Mod. We are currently looking for another faction to add (we got ride of the senate/papacy with BI), but we're rather thinking about the Seljuks, The Volga Bulghars or some slavic faction.

[Csatadi]

Ok. But I hope there will be Pechenegs in the game, some people will cry if not.
Here is the corrected map. Neon green sings show the place of cities.

Please save the image for yourself.

[Meneldil]

Yeah, there will be Pecheneg units

[Archbaker]

Wasn't the Papacy still a relatively large land holder and military power?

Seljuks are extremely late in the period, but could be interesting.

Slavs are a good idea. Would just a general Slav people be too close to existing factions? If so, Western Slavs as a general term, or Great Morania could maybe be used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_peoples
The Polabians, specifically the Rojane from modern Rügen, would be an interesting choise because they were conquered by Denmark right after the period, but these could really just be represented by rebels.

Other possibilities:

Kingdom of Pamplona (like Asturia with bandit troops and less cavalry)
Basque Rebels (like Ostrogoths or Roman Rebels for whatever faction holds #13, #14 and #2. Bandit troops)
County of Catalunya (mix of Franks and Asturia)

I seem to have grown Hispano-centric. Who, besides Abbasids and al-Andalus, had power in North Africa?

[Meneldil]

Wasn't the Papacy still a relatively large land holder and military power?

Seljuks are extremely late in the period, but could be interesting.

Slavs are a good idea. Would just a general Slav people be too close to existing factions? If so, Western Slavs as a general term, or Great Morania could maybe be used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_peoples
The Polabians, specifically the Rojane from modern Rügen, would be an interesting choise because they were conquered by Denmark right after the period, but these could really just be represented by rebels.

Other possibilities:

Kingdom of Pamplona (like Asturia with bandit troops and less cavalry)
Basque Rebels (like Ostrogoths or Roman Rebels for whatever faction holds #13, #14 and #2. Bandit troops)
County of Catalunya (mix of Franks and Asturia)

I seem to have grown Hispano-centric. Who, besides Abbasids and al-Andalus, had power in North Africa?

The Papacy (Patrimonium Petrii) was supposedly a part of the Frankish Empire. It will be either a rebel province or owned by the Central Frankish Kingdom.
If we chose the Seljuks, they'll likely act in the same way as the Golden Horde in MTW.

North Africa, while nominally still ruled by the Caliph was divided between many different and often rival emirates (Idrisids, Aghlabids, Rustamids, etc.). And we won't be using a general slavic faction. I'm thinking about the Poles, but Poland wasn't even an idea in 843. I'll look deeper into this.

[Csatadi]

Meneldil:
I'm afraid Mojgrad the city I suggested to Transylvania is a strange one. I didn't find anything about it.
Maybe Belgrad in the Southern Carpathians would be better choose. You can see it on the map I sended.

And Blatenszki Grad in Pannonia is mainly called on its other name, Mosaburg.

The southern part of Transylvania was under Bulgarian rule. But there isn't any info from this era about it! I think it would be better if it remains a rebel province. The inhabitants were Slavs, Avars and a little Bulgarian community, but it cannot be full steppen culture. I think the slav culture must be the dominant one.

[Speiz_Bankurt]

There was actually no Slav presence in Transilvania. The only Slav presence was in present day Slovakia, and a very small, almost negligable presence in the areas west of the Danube in present day Hungary. At least this is what archeological research tells us.

One thing I noticed with the campaign map is that the provinces look a little strange in central europe. Shouldn't province borders correspond with historical borders of countries? What I mean is that lets say if I want to play as the Magyars, and want to create a country that on the camp map looks exactly like the one in real life did, I cannot do this as the shape of the provinces put together will not correspond to the historical borders of Hungary. If I am wrong because you have already updated the campmap, can you post it again so I can have a look at it?

[Forgus]

There was actually no Slav presence in Transilvania. The only Slav presence was in present day Slovakia, and a very small, almost negligable presence in the areas west of the Danube in present day Hungary. At least this is what archeological research tells us.

I have to oppose this.

There were two major Slavic area in Transsylvania in the 9th century
one the areas around the Olt, Küküllő and the valley of the Szamos; the areas later became (mere coincidence) later inhabited by the Székelys and the Saxons, and a different Slavic populace between the boundaries of a Kis Szamos-Meszes-Kraszna-Túr-Tisza line. None of these were too densely populated on imporant, since from that era only 5 Transsylvanian placenames have Slavic origin, and these are mostly greek names that went into Hungarian with Slavic transfer.

Of course the Bulgarian Turks were an other matter, but then they were not Slavic.

[Csatadi]

There was actually no Slav presence in Transilvania. The only Slav presence was in present day Slovakia, and a very small, almost negligable presence in the areas west of the Danube in present day Hungary. At least this is what archeological research tells us.

One thing I noticed with the campaign map is that the provinces look a little strange in central europe. Shouldn't province borders correspond with historical borders of countries? What I mean is that lets say if I want to play as the Magyars, and want to create a country that on the camp map looks exactly like the one in real life did, I cannot do this as the shape of the provinces put together will not correspond to the historical borders of Hungary. If I am wrong because you have already updated the campmap, can you post it again so I can have a look at it?

I also wrote about it. I hope the map is correct now.

Forgus has right in the Slav theme.

Is Hans Regenkurt your relative?

[Speiz_Bankurt]

Yes, I suppose linguistic evidence (settlement names and their origins) show different than archeological finds. I did say archeological evidence tells us... In any case, slavic presence was neglegable in the Carpathian basin, with the exception of present day slovakia.

Csatadi, I decided on this handle years ago when I was a quite immature, I thought it was going to be a private joke, but now there are more and more Hungarian speakers on these forums. I should probably change it.

[Csatadi]

[OFF]Well, I'm in a very-very strange situation. On this forum I must insist the slavic presence. On the Chivalry TW forum the developers assume so much slav inhabitants which is an obvious exaggaration. [/OFF]
I'm lucky, on this holiday I read about Transylvania in the 7-10th centuries (title of the book: Erdély rövid története).
A lot of rivers and cities wear slav names which is an important linguistic source. These names are from the slavs. If they lived not here there wouldn't be nobody to keep these names. And there are a lot of Magyar name which ones show us the lands without slavs. The findings don't show other facts than the origin of the names.

Even in the Dunántúl (Pannonia) there were a lot of slav people but there were not separated slavic regions in opposition to the present-day Slovakia.

I haven’t got enough time to convince you if you really want it you can find proper books. This book above want to be correct because of the pressure of the nationalism from all the sides.

I haven't got any problem with your name.

[GoreBag]

Not related, but is that a Star Trek reference?

[Csatadi]

Not related, but is that a Star Trek reference?

This is the yin-yang smilie.

[Csatadi]

Notes to the map of the Carpathian basin
http://forums.rometotalrealism.org//...howtopic=12181

[Nacheras]

Terrific page with a complete series of historic spanish maps

http://www.sabuco.com/historia/atlas%20hespa%C3%B1a.htm

[Nacheras]

Page about Ireland (Perhaps you known it...)

http://ceallachan.users.50megs.com/annals.html

[Nacheras]

Page with ancient byzantine images

http://www.sin-italy.org/jnonline/vol17n4/590.html

[Csatadi]

I edited my suggestions to the map of the Carpathian basin
http://forums.rometotalrealism.org//...howtopic=12181

[Meneldil]

The link doesn't work. I'm now adding provinces in Hungary, but I can't find any infos about the cities you were speaking about earlier.
Maps from mek.oszk.hu are great, but I can't read the name of most of the cities.

[Csatadi]

Sorry, I corrected the link.

yes, the letters are hard to read. thats why I wrote their names in my posts. :-),

71 - Pannonia - Mosaburg
72 - Avar Steppes or Avar Lands - Avar Hring (the original sounds as it were in Latin) or Avar Camp
73 - Camp of Slavs. This province is very strage. The Carpathian mountains had very few inhabitants.
74 - Belgrad (same city as the Roman Apulum)
75 - Land of Brodniks or similar - Maybe Belgrad near the Danuvius (this is the Latin Singidunum). Yes, there were two Belgrad these days.

Here is a sample map:


This map shows better the shape of the Carpathian basin.
I suggest these provinces:

1 - Pannonia - Slav duchy from 847, dux Pribina. not so important. Frank vassals
2 - Avar Steppes - Avars and Slavs. Avars are settled people already!
3 - Transylvania - if Pannonia is Latin it can also be Dacia. Slav and Avar inhabitants. May be Bulgarian vassals but I think it is better as a several province.
4 - you called this to Bánát which is an anachronism. This land hadnt any special name in this age. Slav (Brodnik) inhabitants it can be Land of Brodniks or similar. Under Bulgarian rule. The city can be Belgrad see above #75.
5 - part of Moravia. It is too small in itself. Can be part of the Moravia province or add to this nr6. Slovak inhabitants. If it is a separated province city can be Nitrava (it is signed on the map I sended earlier)
6 - as I wrote above 5 and 6 can be a province otherwise add to the Avar Steppes.

[Harald Hairfair]

Okey I love this mod, Can't wait!!! Dunno if this info is usefull, but conserning Norway and the campiagn map I have some suggestions :P

----------- YOUR IDEA
NORWAY AREA
* Hordaland - Bergen (town) (rebels)
* Hafrsfjord (rebels) - Nord-Jaeren / Stafangr
* Vaestfold - Kaupang (position close to Oslo but further down the fiord)
* Trondelag - Trondheim (town)
* Hologaland (modern Lofots area and mainland next to it) - Narvik
* Northern Norway - Tromso
* Finnmark - Kirkenes (situated next to Barents Sea and modern Russian border)

----------- MY Research :S??
* Hordaland - Bergen (Indeed the most important city in the medieval period)
* Hafrsfjord - Stafangr (Modern Stavanger yes..)
* Vaestfold - Kaupang\Oslo
(Good idea, Oslo was a small "settlement" at 1000-1100, and later became the greatest city. I would rathered used Oslo, you can also use Tunsberg as this was the first city in Norway, or both)
* Trondelag - NIDAROS!!!! (Important city, don't drop it! It was the capital for a long time. It's name was Nidaros NOT Trondheim :)
* Hologaland - Vågan!! Not Narvik, hehe. Look here:
http://www.lofoten-startside.no/bilder01/sat-kart.jpg (Vågan was directly north of 'Borg' next to the coast ;) You might also call the region for Lofoten?
* Northern Norway - Tromso (The most northern town mentioned on the net and books is Steinkjær.. A small town far north up the fjord near Nidaros\Trondheim. You might want to call the region Nordland (North-land) and split the wast land between Steinkjær and Kirknes at the middle for both of them. And let Lofoten just be the island(s)?? Tromsø didn't exist at this moment..)
* Finnmark - Kirkenes (Never existed at hat moment, maybe those blue clowns we call Sames had settled there to breed their reindeers..)

Anyways!! I've researched all that for you, I'll hope you'll use it

And one more thing.. Will there be Wonders?

Cheers the viking

[Rodion Romanovich]

Thanks for the info. We're working on that map area at the moment. The province list available in this thread is an old version. We're removing many of the northernmost provinces but not the ground, just that there won't be any cities in the northernmost areas. We'll have some wonders, but we're probably not going to have any more than those we planned, and we're considering to skip wonders altogether, and use the wonder function for something else.

[Krondor]

Hello i could help you for the name of the citys of the province

take for:

Croatia = Zagreb Sisak as capital

Dalmacia = Spalato or Split

Servia = Beograd or Nis what was a fromer City with a big Castle

Could you guys take Croatia as a Party too? I mean in ancent time there where two Croatian Staates White and Red Croatia, the Region in Poland cald Croabatia was Whitecroatia the Dalmatican Coastline was Redcroatia. The founder of the Bulgarian Kingdom was a Croat and the East Ukrain was once a croat state too...

Servia as a party would be good too. Some strong Knights should they have. they had some good in the history.

Is there a posibility to add new religions like heretic or jews?

What about the English would they have knights?

And the French Templar Knights, for the german would be Toutonic Knighs nice :-)

Can i help with the mod it would be a honor for me ;-)

James

[Rodion Romanovich]

We already have the maximum number of factions allowed, so Croatia and Servia can't be a new faction. But they can be a rebel faction, which means they can have some unique units etc., but not be playable.

New religions can be added, but they're bugged, so we won't add any, as it seems now.

The Englisc wouldn't have something worthy of being called knights, but thegns, who would however be of quite low quality. Their main weapon is the fyrd and later also the huscarles.

The Germans can't have teutonic knights as they were introduced after the mod ended. However the hospitallers will be available to the Germans. But the three crusader units will all be very difficult to obtain before the mod ends.

If you want to help with the mod, what are your skills? Do you know skinning etc.? Do you know unit editing?

[Zenith Darksea]

If you like, I can provide advice on Byzantine provinces. I've already helped Chivalry: Total War out with their Byzantine provinces, and I flatter myself that I do know something of the Roman Empire in this period.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Ok, sounds interesting. You could look at some of our screenshots and see whether it's correct or not. I can post them here, but not now, because our internal forum seems to be down, and the links to the screenshots are there... I'll post the screenies as soon as the internal forum is up

[Zenith Darksea]

Ah, there's one problem that I've just remembered. I'm going to Scotland tonight on holiday over Christmas and New Year, so I won't have very frequent internet access. I might be able to look in once or twice though.

[Krondor]

Longbows for the English would be good too, becouse they had the best one in the Medivieal Area ;-)

I dont have any experince of moding rome but i did a bit for Star fleet command 3 and older games like star wars rebellion.

If anyone know where i can get a free version of 3ds Max i can make the models or a semilar program would be nice too.

Is there a ingame limitation of the number of faction that a game can have?