Campaign map

[Rodion Romanovich]

This thread is for discussions about the campaign map.

Here are some samples of the achievements so far:
======================================
Example of campaign map - Scandinavia in winter time:


Known issues:
- provinces, cities, rivers, heights etc. aren't ready yet, this is just a very early alpha version of the map
- mini map - not all of the map is displayed on the minimap. This is being solved ATM.

Loading screens:
=============
--- Temporarily removed ---

Province list:
==========
1 - Aquitaine - Limoges
2 - Gascogne - Bordeaux
3 - Brittany - Rennes
4 - Neustria/Maine/Anjou - Orléans (could be replaced by Le Mans or Angers)
5 - Septimania - Montpellier (could be replaced by Narbonnes)
6 - Provence - Marseilles
7 - Burgundy - Besancon
8 - France - Paris
9 - Flanders - Boulogne
10 - Upper Normandy - Rouen
11 - Lower Normandy - Avranches
12 - Spanish March - Barcelona
13 - Navarre - Pamplona
14 - Castilla - Burgos
15 - Leon - Oviedo (could be remplaced by Leon -the city)
16 - Gallicia - Oporto (could be replaced by Santiago de Compostela)
17 - Toulouse - Toulouse
18 - Badajoz - Badajoz
19 - Toledo - Toledo
20 - Zaragoza - Zaragoza
21 - Valencia - Valencia (I don't know if this place was an independant Emirate or part of Cordoba during the 9th century)
22 - Almeria - Almeria
23 - Granada - Granada
24 - Cordova - Cordova
25 - Sevilla - Sevilla
26 - Novgorod - Novgorod
27 - Polotsk - Polotsk
28 - Smolensk - Smolensk
29 - Rostov-Suzdal - Rostov (could be replaced be either Vladimir or Suzdal)
30 - Kiev - Kiev
31 - Pereiaslav - Pereiaslav
32 - Chernihiv - Ryazan
33 - Volhynia - Brest
34 - Galich - Galich
35 - Estonia ? - ???
36 - Livonia ? - ???
37 - Lithuania - ???
38 - Prussia - ???
39 - Pomerania - Kolberg
40 - Mazovia - Plock
41 - Chrobatia - Cracow
42 - Polania - Posen
43 - Friesland - Utrecht
44 - Ripuaria (could be Upper Lorraine/Lotharingia) - Aix la Chapelle
45 - Moselle (could be Lower Lorraine/Lotharingia) - Strasburg
46 - Liguria - Genoa
47 - Tuscany - Florence (Pisa ?)
48 - States of the Church - Roma
49 - Spoleto - Spoleto
50 - Venetia - Venice
51 - Friuli - Aquileia
52 - Croatia - Sissek
53 - Servia - ???
54 - Lombardy - Milan
55 - Alemannia - Zurich
56 - Franconia - Frankfort
57 - Saxonnia - Bremen
58 - Transalbingia - Hamburg
59 - March of the Billungs - Oldenburg
60 - NordMark - Brandenburg
61 - OstMark - Juterbog
62 - Bohemia - Prague
63 - Bavaria - Salzburg
64 - Moravia - Olmutz
65 - Silesia - Breslau
66 - Carinthia - Fiesach
67 - Cherson - Cherson
68 - Tmoutarakan - Tmoutarakan
69 - Levédia - ??? (land of the Magyars in 840/850)
70 - Etelköz - ??? (land of the Magyars in 840/850)
71 - Pannonia - Ofen
72 - Avarorum Solitudo - Kaliesa (sp?)
73 - Carpathia - Erlau
74 - Transylvania - ???
75 - Banat - Vidin
76 - Dalmatia - Ragusa
77 - Dyrrachium - Dyrrachium
78 - Nicopolis - Nicopolis
79 - Peloponnesus - Corinthes
80 - Hellas - Athens
81 - Thessalonica - Salonica
82 - Macedonia - Andrianople
83 - Thrace - Constantinople
======================
Suggested additions/edits to list above:
Lithuania - Daugava
Estonia -> Revala - Revala (location same as modern Tallinn)
Prussia - Truso (lies just east of modern Gdansk)
Tuscany - I favor Pisa over Florence in this time period
Add: Mistra - Mistra on southern Pelopponessus, should be a Byzantine-owned small town

NORWAY AREA
* Hordaland - Bergen (town) (rebels)
* Hafrsfjord (rebels) - Nord-Jaeren / Stafangr
* Vaestfold - Kaupang (position close to Oslo but further down the fiord)
* Trondelag - Trondheim (town)
* Hologaland (modern Lofots area and mainland next to it) - Narvik
* Northern Norway - Tromso
* Finnmark - Kirkenes (situated next to Barents Sea and modern Russian border)

DENMARK AREA
* Sjaelland - Roskilde
* Holseta Land (modern Nordfriesland, in modern Schleswig-Holstein area) - Haithabu / Hedeby
* North Jutland - Aalborg or Viborg
* Middle Jutland - Jelling

ICELAND AREA
* Iceland - Reyjkjavik

IRELAND AREA
* Midhe (Meath) - Teamhaidh (Tara) (rebels)
* Ulaid (Ulster) - Armagh (strong viking rebels)
* Laigin (Leinster) - Ferns (strong viking rebels)
* Muma (Munster) - Cashel (rebels)
* Connaught (Connacht) - Tuam (owned by Irish)
* Dubh Linn - Dubh Linn (viking rebels)

RUSSIA AND STEPPES AREA
Add: Volga-Bulgaria - Bolgar (at volga-kama bifurcation)
Add: (PROVINCE NAME NEEDED) - Sarkel (just southeast of Donets/Don bifurcation)
Add: (PROVINCE NAME NEEDED) - Timutarkan
Add: (PROVINCE NAME NEEDED) - Atil (at Volga delta)

NORTH AFRICA AREA
(province names are incorrect, but the cities listed here should be included IMO)
* Morocco/Mauretania - Tanger
* Tunisia - Tunis
* Fezzan (Sahara) - Ghadamis and/or Djavan
* Tripolitania - Tripoli
* Cyrenaica - Barka
* Libya - Alexandria
* Egypt (also covering the Sinai) - Cairo / Fostat or Mephis
* Nubia - Assuan - although the map won't reach down to Nubia it'd probably be best to have a nubia province. This is the only recruitment zone for abyssinian guard and other nubian troops.

GERMANY AND EASTERN EUROPE AREA
(Some suggestions for cities to perhaps add:)
Add: Francia Orientalis/Francia (Franconia, north of Swabia) - Magontia?/Mains
Add: Thuringia (north of Franconia) - Erfurt
Add: Saxonia - Jumme / Jomsborg
Perhaps add: Regensburg
Servia - Doclea
- Should Constantinople's province really be called Thrace? I suggest name changed to Constantinople, and call province north of that Thrace. I can find a city for that province, I know there is one there on a historical map I have of the area.

BRITAIN AREA
Scotland
* Strathclyde - Dumbarton
* Fortriu - Dunkeld
* Dal riada - Dunadd or Iona
* Hebrides/Orkney (includes Sutherland and Caithness) - Kirkwall
* Lothian - Edinburgh
Wales
* Gywnedd - Bangor
* Deheubarth - Dinefwr (north of Swansea)
* Dyfed - St David's
* West Wealas / Cerniu / Cornwall (welsh-held, southwest England) - Isca (modern Exeter)
Saxons and rebels
* West seaxe (Wessex) - Winchester
* East seaxe (Essex) - London
* Kent - Canterbury (if it will fit)
* Mierce (Mercia) - Chester
* East Anglia - Norwich
* Northumberland (Northumbria) - York

ASIA MINOR AREA
* Paphlagonia - Sinope
* Trebizond - Trebizond
* Opsikion - Nikaia / Nicaea
* Thrakesion - Pergamum
* Anatolikon - Iconium
* Cappadocia - Ankara / Ancyra / Angora
* Lesser Armenia - Tarsus
* Edessa - Edessa
* Armenia - Tiflis

MIDDLE EAST AREA
(not complete, Aleppo needs to be added, among other settlements, and province names aren't good)
* Antiokeia - Antiokeia
* Tripolis - Tripolis
* Palestine - Jerusalem
* Syria - Damascus
* Arabia - Medina
* Baghdad - Baghdad
* Mosul - Mosul
* Basra - Basra

MEDITERRANEAN ISLANDS
* Sicily - Palermo
* Baliares - Palma
* Corsica - Bastia (at northern tip)
* Sardinia - Caralis/Cagliari
* Cyprus - Nicosia
* Crete - Candia / Kandia
* Rhodes - Rhodos

FINLAND AND BALTIC AREA
(the information needed for the Finland and Baltic area provinces has been borrowed from the FURY OF THE NORSEMEN mod with their permission, thanks ):
Finland:
* Haeme (Häme, middle west coast of Finland) - Kokemäki (slightly south of modern Vaasa)
* Vakka-Suomi (southwest coast of Finland) - Turku (same place as modern Turku)
* Karjala (means Karelia I presume, north of Lake Ladoga, stretching far up north) - Kaekisalmi (Käkisalmi, at northwestern tip of Lake Ladoga)
* Kainuunmaa (north west coast) - Kainuu (far north)
* Inkerinmaa/Ingria - Laatoknakaupunki (very close to Novgorod but situated at the southern shore of Lake Ladoga)
Further south:
* Livonia - ? (north of Lithuania)
* Saaremaa (the island at opening of Gulf of Riga) - Kuressaare (city is the larger of the two islands at the opening of Gulf of Riga)
* Courland/Curland (southwest half of Lativa) - Seeburg (southeast modern Lativa area)

SWEDEN AREA
* Ostgothia - Vadstena
* Waestrogothia - Skara
* Gotland - Visby
* Smaland - ?
* Samiland - Sápmi
* Halland - Loedoese
* Skani - Uppaakra or Lund

(the following two haven't been decided yet - the cities have been decided but not the province names yet):
* Svealand or Tiundaland - Birka
* Uppland - Uppsala


Factions conversion list:
==================
FRANKISH
romans_julii -> Holy roman empire
romans_brutii -> Lotharingia
romans_scipii -> France
romans_senate -> Papal states

WESTERN
gauls -> Asturia
germans -> Normans
britons -> Saxons
dacia -> Welsh
scythia -> Scots
spain -> Irish

TURKISH
parthia -> Khazars
pontus -> Bulgars
armenia -> Magyars

ARABIC
carthage -> Al Andalus
numidia -> Abbassids

GREEK
egypt -> Byzantines

NORSE
seleucid -> Norway
greek_cities -> Sweden
macedon -> Denmark
thrace -> Rus

slave

[shifty157]

i really like the loading screens.

[GoreBag]

The first two remind me of Kittelsen paintings.

[shifty157]

The first two remind me of Kittelsen paintings.

The third one reminds me of the opening scene in the movie Gladiator.

[GoreBag]

The third one reminds me of the opening scene in the movie Gladiator.

Man, I hate that movie.

[Rodion Romanovich]

I'm glad you liked the loading screens. I'll post some more soon. The first one above is made from a photo near where the battle of Hastings was fought. The second one is also made from a photo, but it's more heavily edited. The village was originally some 19th century village or so, so I had to remove windows and too advanced chimneys and change shape of the roofs in order to give it a dark age look. The third one is also made from a photo taken during Scandinavian winter...

I'll post one loading screen from where Kaupang was located, and another one with the Icelandic coast soon, unless the pictures I've got turn out to not be suited for becoming loading screens.

Also, I've gotten far with the map_ground_types.tga which I might post by the end of this week. It'll, apart from showing the ground types, also show the final plan for where coastlines will be, which lakes and islands are included, and how large the map will be. I think it'll go much faster to fix the heights and climates maps, and then only the regions and features maps are needed before I can start testing the maps. Unfortunately there have been many delays due to replanning of provinces and settlements over and over again. This time I'm making the terrain first and will prepare a map for provinces and cities so I can quickly fill them in when I find out which of them will be included.

[Csatadi]

I have a good map from 900. It shows well the natural vegetation and the names of the slav and finno-ugrian people.

Names are in hungarian but if you have an english list you can easily identify them. If you need help I will translate the names. I have this map also in my atlas. Sorry for the red lines.

[ScionTheWorm]

Hi just thinking about the loading screens... I think they're great the ones over, and this is just an idea... what about take some in-game screenshots and make them like paintings in dark colors...? Gives some dark age, world on fire-feeling I think. Okay this is just a thought, here is some quick example I made to illustrate:

[Rodion Romanovich]

I was thinking about doing something with in-game shots too, but at that time I didn't have any skinned units for the mod ready. Your picture looks good, but I don't think we should have that much fire, and rather stick to a realistic-looking color scale, for the sky. A real sky at sunset looks red enough IMO.

For loading screens in general I think a mix of calm natural views and battle pictures would be good for loading screens. Also, for the battle pictures I think it would be cool if we used a more complex terrain and arrange the exact battle scene we want in a custom battle or in multiplayer with each other to get the pictures we want.

[ScionTheWorm]

I agree, the example was really just to illustrate what i meant, it was not as a candidate. I think in-game screens will look great when more units arrive (I can see it; hordes of spear in the background, dust, fire, death) heh

If integrated with some photographs (towns, backgrounds, fire) and some artistic filters in photoshop it would really be something. I think it should be dark, but if not, at least have some consistency in the colors (like vanilla rome with red loading screens, a little boring with one color though..).

I mean a bearly edited in-game screenshot is still just a screen-shot. should be something more. (I think this is actually very important, it sets the mood for the whole experience. agree?)

[Rodion Romanovich]

I think this is actually very important, it sets the mood for the whole experience. agree?

Yes, I agree to that. Unfortunately I felt restricted to make it look more like a painting because the graphics you get on the campaign map and the battle field rendering doesn't look that dark either. I don't know what others think but I'd go for a combination of say 5 edited battle scenes screenshots and around 10 nature pictures from Nordic winter landscapes. The battle screenshots could be really cool if we arranged them well.

Here are some suggestions for new loading screens ideas (some are nature views, others are battle scenes):

1. a small army on a hill in the foreground, looking down on a huge army below in the background.
2. half-way through a chargefrom the best knights into a flank of the enemy
3. some hand-to-hand combat with all units mixed up with each other
4. a burning village with viking raiders running around with torches and swords (this one will probably have to be a combination of own images and in-game screenshots - perhaps it's too complicated)
5. a naked, snow-covered field, with dead bodies lying in the foreground, and a battle scene far in the background
6. icelandic southern coast
7. a norwegian fiord seen from the sea or perhaps from an inland mountain
8. a forest of thin trees edited so it's looks really eerie
9. a Rus siege of Constantinople
10. a Viking siege of Paris

[ScionTheWorm]

1. a small army on a hill in the foreground, looking down on a huge army below in the background
2. half-way through a chargefrom the best knights into a flank of the enemy
3. some hand-to-hand combat with all units mixed up with each other
4. a burning village with viking raiders running around with torches and swords (this one will probably have to be a combination of own images and in-game screenshots - perhaps it's too complicated)
5. a naked, snow-covered field, with dead bodies lying in the foreground, and a battle scene far in the background
6. icelandic southern coast
7. a norwegian fiord seen from the sea or perhaps from an inland mountain
8. a forest of thin trees edited so it's looks really eerie
9. a Rus siege of Constantinople
10. a Viking siege of Paris

Would like to have more teammembers discussing this. I don't feel like white/gray winter landscapes gives the right mood, like the one with the bird (specie: dompap in norwegian?), i think it should either be open and very nice landscapes, something with a specific culture, or something with war (mainly this). I think your suggestions is very good though!!

4. a burning village with viking raiders running around with torches and swords (this one will probably have to be a combination of own images and in-game screenshots - perhaps it's too complicated)

This would be great!

I think screenshots/parts of screenshots should be used all pictures containing troops and military for consistency. We could get really great shots with the "free zoom"-mod (we can zoom out as far as we want + we can get the frog-perspective). With some artistic filters it could easely be integrated with other images, as for instance a burning village. As for colours I agree they should not be as dark as my example, but they should have a tendency to be dominated by one or two neutral colours (I think a little dark-gray-blue would do).

[ScionTheWorm]

Considered this?

More than two turns a year

I've always wanted that myself, but maybe it won't fit the plan. Just wondered if you've thought about it

[Rodion Romanovich]

Considered this?

More than two turns a year

I've always wanted that myself, but maybe it won't fit the plan. Just wondered if you've thought about it

I don't know, it might be too complex to add it. Otherwise we could always add it in version 2, or at least have a look at it and post here in our forums instructions for how to adapt that mod to our mod for those who are interested.

[ScionTheWorm]

I don't know, it might be too complex to add it. Otherwise we could always add it in version 2, or at least have a look at it and post here in our forums instructions for how to adapt that mod to our mod for those who are interested.

I think it could be implemented, could at worst get help from the mod-developer. Anyway, I wonder about your thoughts on how it would affect gameplay. I think:
- More realistic distances when armies are marching. A country could be taken in one year, or lost in one year.
- Longer time to constructing buildings; maybe this would be negative, because getting new units and such would take twice as it would if not..

Of course it might me better with 2 turns a year, this is only to show that there's an option.

[ScionTheWorm]

Thanks to some guidance from Narayanese in Citadel Total War and some experimentation, I've learned a few new things in 3d max. Here is sort of a preview of two units, both very simplified - removed some objects to get it to look good from this perspective, and from this close

Scottish Claiomhnaghta finishing of an irish levy

[The Wizard]

You might also like to include some quotes by Ali ibn Abi Talib, fourth Caliph of Islam.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ali_ibn_Abi_Talib

Watch out for those from Peak of Eloquence though; that book was released long after his death by shiites and is known to contain propaganda, totally unbefitting of such an enlightened man as Ali. You'd best go with those at the top, those might be under 'Attributed', but they are his (the heading is incorrect) and not fabricated after his death, when he became a tool for political games.



~Wiz

[GoreBag]

Thanks to some guidance from Narayanese in Citadel Total War and some experimentation, I've learned a few new things in 3d max. Here is sort of a preview of two units, both very simplified - removed some objects to get it to look good from this perspective, and from this close

Scottish Claiomhnaghta finishing of an irish levy

Tell me you can make that shot part of the death animation...

[ScionTheWorm]

sorry, I think they would be totally unsynchronized..

[GoreBag]

I don't think anything can be done about battlefield gore, but a head on parade here or there added solely for atmosphere would work wonders.

[Bar Kochba]

is it possible to have part of greenlan in this mod or even go all the way to newfoundland or just vinland