Campaign map

**Rodion Romanovich** · 06-24-2005, 15:23

Originally Posted by eadingas

btw, it doesn't matter really what color are the lakes, just as long as they're water.

ok, but they have to be one of the three allowed sea colors, don't they? I think I used a fourth red color temporarily during the work with the map so I would see the lakes before coloring them in the darkest sea color. Anyway, thanks for the tip. It would probably be more practical to have all the lakes in the brightest water color so they're easier to spot against the often dark background.

**Incongruous** · 06-28-2005, 11:43

Ok, you just listed that the Magyars as being cinverted into Armenia, they should be around the area of Scythia, Tribus Gatea, Bosphorus and possibly Maeotis.
Sorry another attack of bad english, I hope it helps

**ScionTheWorm** · 06-28-2005, 11:47

we understand you, you don't need to double post all the time

**Rodion Romanovich** · 06-28-2005, 15:50

Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar

Ok, you just listed that the Magyars as being cinverted into Armenia, they should be around the area of Scythia, Tribus Gatea, Bosphorus and possibly Maeotis.
Sorry another attack of bad english, I hope it helps

No, Armenia -> Magyars means we'll use the hardcoded Armenia faction in R:TW to change to Magyars. Which faction you choose to remake doesn't matter except in that those with the same culture in R:TW gets the same culture in the mod. We haven't decided the magyar provinces yet, see the Provinces thread. Most of the provinces west of Kiev and east of the Holy roman empire aren't complete yet. If you have any good suggestions about which cities should be included in the area east of the Holy roman empire and west of Kiev, feel free to post those suggestions in the Provinces thread. Which cities are going to be included is more important than how the provinces are divided, but if you have good province names too we're interested.

**skeletor** · 07-01-2005, 09:29

I have planted some seeds for the mod at the RTR forum, and some of them have turned in to interesting discusions... Specially this about the Byzantine Empire... Worth a watch http://www.rometotalrealism.com/phpb...opic.php?t=993

-Skel-

**ScionTheWorm** · 07-01-2005, 10:45

The extent of Total War-gamer's history knowledge never stop to surprise me... just wondering as I'm not in a mood for finding out myself, when did the byzantine empire go under?

**Incongruous** · 07-01-2005, 10:58

I beleive in 1453. Don't listen to that Romanus guy, he said that the Byzantine Empire was at its zenith during the time period of this game so clearly he has no real knowladge of the,

But Apostate has a great knowladge, wow!

**Rodion Romanovich** · 07-01-2005, 14:05

In 1204, Constantinople was sacked by the fourth crusade, thanks to the Venetians who were enemies of Constantinople due to how trade in Constantinople was favored to the Genoese and others. Then for many years there was no Byzantine empire, until a guy united some of the men again and took Constantinople. They survived the mongols and many years of emnity with Turkish tribes, but in 1453, the Ottoman turks, having been beated by Timur Lenk and pushed to strengthen their small colonies in the Balkans area, thought Constantinople was the next logical step for their expansion. After Timur Lenk's empire had gone, the Ottoman turks had retaken their positions in Asia minor and thus had an empire both in Balkans and Asia minor with Constantinople in the middle being like an isle in the middle of their empire. The Byzantines (or Latin empire which it was called after the reuniting after the 1204 disaster), hadn't got much of an army to resist the invasion. The had also got a flourishing economy and hired the best European artillery along with their own, and could completely crush the walls of the city. The inferiority in numbers of the Byzzies, perhaps around 1 to 10, had been able to resist before the advanced artillery came, but now they were chanceless. They also seem to have had a much weaker fleet and didn't use the greek fire that had killed so many earlier naval assaults on the city, so the ottomans could attack from the sea as well.

According to what I've read, the Byzzies had been steadily losing power up to 843 AD, but then things calmed down and they had a golden age for a few centuries. In 1071, they were defeated so badly at Manzikert that it ended the golden age and started a steady decline of the empire which continued until in 1204 AD. The loss of good provinces made them unable to recruit the skilled troops they had been using previously, and the general loss of land made their economy decline, meaning they could no longer pay their mercenaries. Most mercenaries therefore refused to fight in 1204, according to the legend only the varangians tried to resist the crusaders when they entered the city but they were vastly outnumbered and soon had to give up.

Also, 1204 wasn't the first time the empire was nearly destroyed. During the muslim expansions, the greek fire and great fortifications of Constantinople, as well as some luck, saved an otherwise much weakened empire from destruction. Same thing happened when the bulgars came. The bulgars defeated them in the open but couldn't siege the city to death (the bulgars didn't have much of a fleet so they only tried land assault). Then there was also a viking siege of the city. The viking siege was apparently the most successful one, probably because they had a great fleet. They recieved a tribute among other things. But it wasn't unil in 1204 that the city really fell.