Campaign map

**Meneldil** · 10-02-2005, 15:00

Yeah, there will be Pecheneg units

**Archbaker** · 10-02-2005, 16:05

Wasn't the Papacy still a relatively large land holder and military power?

Seljuks are extremely late in the period, but could be interesting.

Slavs are a good idea. Would just a general Slav people be too close to existing factions? If so, Western Slavs as a general term, or Great Morania could maybe be used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_peoples
The Polabians, specifically the Rojane from modern Rügen, would be an interesting choise because they were conquered by Denmark right after the period, but these could really just be represented by rebels.

Other possibilities:

Kingdom of Pamplona (like Asturia with bandit troops and less cavalry)
Basque Rebels (like Ostrogoths or Roman Rebels for whatever faction holds #13, #14 and #2. Bandit troops)
County of Catalunya (mix of Franks and Asturia)

I seem to have grown Hispano-centric. Who, besides Abbasids and al-Andalus, had power in North Africa?

**Meneldil** · 10-02-2005, 16:17

Originally Posted by Archbaker

Wasn't the Papacy still a relatively large land holder and military power?

Seljuks are extremely late in the period, but could be interesting.

Slavs are a good idea. Would just a general Slav people be too close to existing factions? If so, Western Slavs as a general term, or Great Morania could maybe be used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_peoples
The Polabians, specifically the Rojane from modern Rügen, would be an interesting choise because they were conquered by Denmark right after the period, but these could really just be represented by rebels.

Other possibilities:

Kingdom of Pamplona (like Asturia with bandit troops and less cavalry)
Basque Rebels (like Ostrogoths or Roman Rebels for whatever faction holds #13, #14 and #2. Bandit troops)
County of Catalunya (mix of Franks and Asturia)

I seem to have grown Hispano-centric. Who, besides Abbasids and al-Andalus, had power in North Africa?

The Papacy (Patrimonium Petrii) was supposedly a part of the Frankish Empire. It will be either a rebel province or owned by the Central Frankish Kingdom.
If we chose the Seljuks, they'll likely act in the same way as the Golden Horde in MTW.

North Africa, while nominally still ruled by the Caliph was divided between many different and often rival emirates (Idrisids, Aghlabids, Rustamids, etc.). And we won't be using a general slavic faction. I'm thinking about the Poles, but Poland wasn't even an idea in 843. I'll look deeper into this.

**Csatadi** · 10-11-2005, 22:39

Meneldil:
I'm afraid Mojgrad the city I suggested to Transylvania is a strange one. I didn't find anything about it.
Maybe Belgrad in the Southern Carpathians would be better choose. You can see it on the map I sended.

And Blatenszki Grad in Pannonia is mainly called on its other name, Mosaburg.

The southern part of Transylvania was under Bulgarian rule. But there isn't any info from this era about it! I think it would be better if it remains a rebel province. The inhabitants were Slavs, Avars and a little Bulgarian community, but it cannot be full steppen culture. I think the slav culture must be the dominant one.

**Speiz_Bankurt** · 10-26-2005, 04:37

There was actually no Slav presence in Transilvania. The only Slav presence was in present day Slovakia, and a very small, almost negligable presence in the areas west of the Danube in present day Hungary. At least this is what archeological research tells us.

One thing I noticed with the campaign map is that the provinces look a little strange in central europe. Shouldn't province borders correspond with historical borders of countries? What I mean is that lets say if I want to play as the Magyars, and want to create a country that on the camp map looks exactly like the one in real life did, I cannot do this as the shape of the provinces put together will not correspond to the historical borders of Hungary. If I am wrong because you have already updated the campmap, can you post it again so I can have a look at it?

**Forgus** · 10-26-2005, 10:48

Originally Posted by Speiz_Bankurt

There was actually no Slav presence in Transilvania. The only Slav presence was in present day Slovakia, and a very small, almost negligable presence in the areas west of the Danube in present day Hungary. At least this is what archeological research tells us.

I have to oppose this.

There were two major Slavic area in Transsylvania in the 9th century
one the areas around the Olt, Küküllő and the valley of the Szamos; the areas later became (mere coincidence) later inhabited by the Székelys and the Saxons, and a different Slavic populace between the boundaries of a Kis Szamos-Meszes-Kraszna-Túr-Tisza line. None of these were too densely populated on imporant, since from that era only 5 Transsylvanian placenames have Slavic origin, and these are mostly greek names that went into Hungarian with Slavic transfer.

Of course the Bulgarian Turks were an other matter, but then they were not Slavic.

**Csatadi** · 10-30-2005, 17:20

Originally Posted by Speiz_Bankurt

There was actually no Slav presence in Transilvania. The only Slav presence was in present day Slovakia, and a very small, almost negligable presence in the areas west of the Danube in present day Hungary. At least this is what archeological research tells us.

One thing I noticed with the campaign map is that the provinces look a little strange in central europe. Shouldn't province borders correspond with historical borders of countries? What I mean is that lets say if I want to play as the Magyars, and want to create a country that on the camp map looks exactly like the one in real life did, I cannot do this as the shape of the provinces put together will not correspond to the historical borders of Hungary. If I am wrong because you have already updated the campmap, can you post it again so I can have a look at it?

I also wrote about it. I hope the map is correct now.

Forgus has right in the Slav theme.

Is Hans Regenkurt your relative?

**Speiz_Bankurt** · 10-31-2005, 07:02

Yes, I suppose linguistic evidence (settlement names and their origins) show different than archeological finds. I did say archeological evidence tells us... In any case, slavic presence was neglegable in the Carpathian basin, with the exception of present day slovakia.

Csatadi, I decided on this handle years ago when I was a quite immature, I thought it was going to be a private joke, but now there are more and more Hungarian speakers on these forums. I should probably change it.