Why not open the Backroom to non-members?

[Quietus]

Hi everyone,

I just have a question. Why not open the Backroom to non-members? I mean, let non-members view the Backroom.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

We tried it, didn't work.

[Mikeus Caesar]

How come? And why not open the backroom to me? At least let me view it. Reasons for letting me at least view it:

1) Great source of entertainment, watching the bickering.
2) I need to view it, for my sociology report, on human behaviour.

[IrishMike]

I could see where that would be a big problem with warnings and control.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Are we talking about viewing or posting? Because I think having new patrons not being able to post is a good thing. It allows us to make sure they're at least marginally sane before loosing them. Viewing, on the other hand, I don't have a problem with.

[Quietus]

BKS, I'm talking about viewing, yes.

[Blodrast]

I think one good argument I heard once (this issue has been raised before) was that the patrons should first prove that they're here for their interest in Total War games, and hence should first achieve their Member status by posting in the game-related forums.

(My interpretation, which by the way may well be wrong):
I think the point this argument tries to make is that it's preferable to keep this board mainly for TW games, and try to prevent it from becoming a subsidiary of the Backroom (that being an extreme case, of course).

Note that none of these reflects my opinion, I'm just stating something I read a while ago, related to this topic.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

The primary reason, as I understand it, for the way in which we vet members, was a gun control thread that sprang up in the backroom a while back, before I was here. Things got very heated, and large numbers of patrons were registering simply to join in the flame war. This was the reason for the introduction of the entrance hall system-as Bloodrast says, it's meant to ensure patrons aren't here solely to cause trouble.

[Blodrast]

yup, I knew there was something missing from my explanation.
BKS explained it more clearly.

[ichi]

Hi everyone,

I just have a question. Why not open the Backroom to non-members? I mean, let non-members view the Backroom.

You clarified that you meant open to viewing. IMHO there's no reason to open a forum to viewing by people who can't post there.

So let me turn this around. Why open the Backroom to viewing by non-members?

ichi

[Quietus]

You clarified that you meant open to viewing. IMHO there's no reason to open a forum to viewing by people who can't post there.

So let me turn this around. Why open the Backroom to viewing by non-members?

ichi

Because the rest of the forums (or fora?) are open to non-members!

[Productivity]

I can't see how allowing viewing acheives anything, and it might lead to spamming to try and get promoted to a full member.

As for Mikeus, you got banned, one of hte consequences of that is you can't read the backroom. The fact that you need to see the backroom just shows how dumb of you it was to behave such that you would get banned, knowing you needed it. I fail to see why your ban should be relaxed, just because you feel you need access.

[Byzantine Prince]

dgb, neither Mikeus nor me were banned because of our behaviour in the backroom. For me it was the Monastery, where someone insulted my language, and for Mikeus it was the Entrance Hall, which anyone can post in. I don't see how being banned from the backroom could have prevented those things from hapening.

[Productivity]

Obviously the org works on fixed rather than variable penalties then. One of the penalties is banning from the backroom. It may not make sense to you, but obviously the administration has decided that it is the most efficient system and so it gets implemented.

Clearly, given the way you both seem to be disliking the backroom ban, it is working as a punishment. So looks like it works after all...

[therother]

Hmm, I thought that Junior Members could already view the Backroom, just not post in it. At least, that was the case last time I checked. Perhaps it has since changed?

As for the current Warning system, "ban" is a bit of a misnomer here. It's really a temporary demotion to a very low permission account rather than a no permission account, which would be more common when banned. "Banned" users can still post in the open forums, but not the access masked Backroom, and can't do any of the nicer things, like have a signature, custom user title, edit posts and so on. Plus they get increased flood control.

Of course there is still the default vBulletin banning system should anyone feel the need to really step over the line.

Anyway, anyone considering spamming to become a Member will be sorely disappointed: post count doesn't really matter, and posting a large number of spam posts as a Junior Member would more than likely count against you when the Staff consider which patrons should become Members.

[Quietus]

Any comments from Tosa or other Mods?

It just makes this forum look complete, especially when non-members sees it. I don't think we'll be invaded by extremists at all since there's a lot more forums (fora?) out there catering to those kinds of discussions!

[ichi]

Because the rest of the forums (or fora?) are open to non-members!

that's not much of a reason, mate (actually IMO its a bad reason). The Tavern is distinct from other forums, very different in intent and content. People can view other threads and learn about the game, or follow progress on mods, or read stories.

There are many many forums on the net that provide the opportunity to read about how Bob disagrees with Ted about whether Hitler or Stalin had the better mustache. That isn't the primary purpose of the Org. The Tavern provides a place for members of the Total War Community to learn more about each other. Member status isnt that hard to attain, and without a restriction lots of people who aren't part of our community might get attracted to the discussions in the Tavern.

I just think this is not a good idea.

ichi

[JAG]

I don't think it is advisable, past experience should make us steer clear of it for a start. On top of that there is no need for it - just because the rest of the forum can be viewed by non members doesn't mean it is right for the backroom to be viewed by as such, that is no justification purely a factual point.

[Laridus Konivaich]

The backroom should not be opened to non-members because of the reasons stated by other posters (spamming to request member status, et cetera). The reasons for not letting them post are certainly more numerous, and more convincing, such as allowing them to become used to the rules and style of the forums before allowing them to enter discussions which are likely to become heated..

Essentially, it is much harder to want and or seek after something about which you do not know, than to do the same for a known item; and the nature of backroom discussions is different from that of many other discussions, in that it freely includes politics, which are the second most inflamatory topic (land is first).

At the end of the day, it really depends on theindividual, and their level of maturity and loyalty to the forums. Hopefully the people who make the best, most mature posts will become members quickly, so that quality contributors are not excluded from the backroom.

[Duke Malcolm]

Let the wee bairns view the backroom? They'll be mentally scarred for life...
They'll build up stuff to say there until they can finally say it in one huge rant, and there will be far to many rant pages... It has been while since my first visit to the backroom, perhaps after I became a senior patron, or junior member, I can't remember, and it is not advisable....
If you let them post from the start, there wil be swathes of gibberish amongst to political waffles of the learned members, and will no doubt be harder to read... I should know, I've posted plenty of gibberish...

However, I am not in charge (yet...), and so the decision is solely in the hands of the assembly of Moderators, and whomever the administrator is (TosaInu, I think), but before allowing them entry even to view, might I suggest a Poll in the backroom first on the matter?

[TosaInu]

Any comments from Tosa or other Mods?

The Backroom will be read only for new members, read and write for members and closed for everyone else.

The Backroom can become quite heated; problems are easier to fix when people have some common ground.