0 turn building time?

[jerby]

I know i already posted it, but i'd liek to know a lot of opinions of this issue.
what is EB's stand on 0 turn building time? what are the Cons/Pros?
IMO, 0-building-time is more accurate. Soldiers were trained from infacny( some later than others) and later were 'summoned' for a war (i'm not completly right probably, im no expert)
If alexander had to start training his army before he had invaded he'd be 50 before he started.
again (as always) correct me if i'm wrong (i say it so often it shoudl be in my sig.. )

[Danest]

We would need significant city populations, unless we want a depopulated Rome(though I suppose the limit of Romans was an issue, hence auxiliaries). But the AI might not know it, and depopulate its cities (if it were a rich faction capable of supporting such large armies).
And I think, at least professional armies like the Legions didn't just pop up but most likely had quite significant training periods. But then, maybe being able to produce several legions in 0 time is better than a giant city being able to produce no greater number of units per turn than a village. So maybe only really special/exotic/expensive/rare units should take more than 0 turns to build? Cavalry, elephants, etc? But I bet EB already has their plan for build times in place, and that's fine either way.

[metatron]

We would need significant city populations, unless we want a depopulated Rome(though I suppose the limit of Romans was an issue, hence auxiliaries). But the AI might not know it, and depopulate its cities (if it were a rich faction capable of supporting such large armies).
And I think, at least professional armies like the Legions didn't just pop up but most likely had quite significant training periods. But then, maybe being able to produce several legions in 0 time is better than a giant city being able to produce no greater number of units per turn than a village. So maybe only really special/exotic/expensive/rare units should take more than 0 turns to build? Cavalry, elephants, etc? But I bet EB already has their plan for build times in place, and that's fine either way.

Exactly right. The strength of a legion was in it's training.

[jerby]

yes indeed. but 0 turn doenst state they didnt hav etraining. IMO 0-turn would state that legionares were trained and then Summoned to go fighting.this is reflected better.
but 0-turn gives more cons than pro's so i am persuaded.

[Pycckuu]

Would it be possible to create more then 1 unit per one turn? i think that might work better.

[Khan of ED]

I think that 0-turns build time is better for game-play and this is game no matter how hard you try to bring realism in it.

And i really like the idea of some more elite units using 1-turn
(and for spartans 36-turns to keep things real lol) but we can do that ourself is just the question of how much self-control one have lol.

Somebody said that 0-turn building time would make game to easy i disagree if you killed full stack in vanilla that was a big blow for AI and player could walk around unopposed for some time (and AI is never able to kill player full stack).
So more full stack that AI has and that can easy replace the better, players usually don't go full stack crazy ( well i don't )
Plus more full stack that AI has better chances for full stack ambush lol (and full stack ambush hurts )
Maybe 9 units per turn is really to much, but 4 i could live with ( and AI usually don't build more than 4 units per turn in one city when using 0-turns build time anyway) but here our self-control comes in.
I think there should be big discusion about this issue because it has big part of have the mod will play.

Keep it real

[shifty157]

And also 1 city can train more than 80 men in 6 months.

[khelvan]

As an aside, 1 man does not equal 1 man. These represent larger armies. If you think of the largest battles of antiquity, and make the scale equivalent to one stack per main battle line, and one stack per reserves, you see that 1 man in our armies equals many more men in reality.

We are limited to the scale that CA has forced upon us.

[shifty157]

Thats true khelvan but history does show that it is possible to call up a massive army in very little time. The Romans managed to raise an army of 80,000 (i think thats right) in relatively little time to go and fight (and lose) at Canea. Thats just one example off the top of my head.

Also i have played SPQR quite a bit and the AI depleting cities didnt seem like a very large issue in the campaigns i played.

[khelvan]

Yes, but RTW's recruitment system is ahistorical no matter how you look at it - 0 turn or no. The whole system can't reflect reality in any way. You're talking about two equally ahistorical ways of showing how armies were raised.

Build a barracks and voila! Instant army. It doesn't work that way. Many armies were called up quickly, but the training had already happened, the infrastructure to support the army in place, and various other things that have to happen before such an army can be raised. It wasn't as though 80,000 trained, equipped, fed, clothed, etc. men appeared out of nowhere.

It really is a pointless argument from a historical standpoint - six of one, half dozen of the other.

[shifty157]

so history aside i think 0 turn recruitment is better in gameplay. perhaps make it teired. using the premarian romans as an example, peasants/town militia/hastati take 0 turns to build while principes/triarii take 1 turn. velites and other auxilaries take 0 turns. equites take 1 turn. id say this sounds like a good plan. not only can you recruit the large armies (although of only weaker units) but it adds more strategy as well. would you rather recruit 3 units of hastati or 1 unit of principes? You can also use this to show the various specialties of a faction. As with the romans, roman cavalry was few and far between so they take 1 turn to build. While in another faction, a unit of light cavalry equivalent to equites would take 0 turns to build.

I dont think any units should take more than 1 turn to build however. This impedes gameplay rather than increasing strategy.

[Copperhaired Berserker!]

No, don't use 0 turn stuff, only use it on guys who are easily trained

[khelvan]

We have said it before - there is very little chance of 0-turn recruitment for us. We have other plans to address some of the things people have brought up, such as levies being raised to defend a city under siege. At this point it is safe to assume that if you guys want 0-turn recruitment, you will have to mod it in.

[Jebus]

I say that whatever EB chooses, they'll have made sure it ties in with their mod perfectly and will be completely balanced.

And I say that because I'm kissing ass.

[shifty157]

And I say that because I'm kissing ass.

Well done. Well done indeed.

[Han]

I find these petty things amusing