Exxon behind Bush's NO to Kyoto

[Don Corleone]

The documents you posted say Exxon was consulted and offered their opinions through the GCC. While they were disingenuous to the House of Lords & other groups claiming they had played no role, that's not the same thing as Bush picking up the phone to them and saying "Yes, master?" as this article would have it.

I'd like to see some evidence of quid pro quo before we accept it as fact. I'd also like to know who else was on that GCC and in what percentages. It's an interesting start, and certainly doesn't look great, but there's a lot more homework to be done yet.

[Ldvs]

Perhaps it's not the "Yes, Master?" but it's not far behind. This case set aside, do you think it's normal to ask industrials if measures concerning the environment fit their plans? Maybe it's acceptable in the USA, but certainly not here.

[Don Corleone]

As long as you don't ask them exclusively. That's why I want to know who else was on the GCC.

In America, typically when something like this comes up that has the potential to impact a lot of different people, in a lot of different ways, we don't just go to the environmentalist loonies and ask them what they think we should do. We do ask them, but we ask (or at least supposed to) a wide swath of people, from all walks of life. The idea being that all impacts can be put out on the table and relative gains/losses (in all spheres) can be evaluated. Now if Bush stacked the deck and had all oil & automotive industry represetatives on this advisory panel, then yeah, I'm going to be pretty peeved. But if for every Exxon guy, there was a Sierra Club or Audobon Society guy, then the process was at least set up properly.

P.S. Don't for one minute think that Thales, Michelin & Alcatel have more to do with your policies then you think they do. They might be better at hiding it, but wherever you have open campaigns, you have corporate influence (and I would argue, again, as long as it's balanced, you should).

[Ldvs]

P.S. Don't for one minute think that Thales, Michelin & Alcatel have more to do with your policies then you think they do. They might be better at hiding it, but wherever you have open campaigns, you have corporate influence (and I would argue, again, as long as it's balanced, you should).

Oh, yes. They certainly find a means to voice their concerns about many subjects, but I doubt they're heard concerning environmental issues. The reason for this is simple: it's the EU that set environmental policies and the measures are quite drastic (many companies complain but that doesn't make the EU change its policy). I can think of only one consortium being powerful enough to influence the European decisions: EADS (AIRBUS is part of it). The firms you quoted have an influence on France's policies but they aren't yet big enough to be able to do the same with the EU.

[Lazul]

Ldvs, do you understand Swedish? I mean you quated the swedish article.

well anyway, it doesnt really matter how much Exxon influanced Bush's "no"... any degree is to much.
Companies should adjust to the state, the state shouldnt adjust to the companies.

[Lazul]

more on the same: http://gnn.tv/headlines/3280/G8_scie...ct_now_or_else

[BDC]

Companies should be consulted to an extent, but they shouldn't be the ones behind the main policy decisions. Why? Because their loyalty is to their shareholders and financial gain, whilst the government's is to the people. It doesn't help the people who's houses are sinking underwater if a couple of companies' shareholders are rolling in it because they have been given free reign to pollute as much as they want.

[Ldvs]

Ldvs, do you understand Swedish?

If I told you I did it would be a pure boast (and lie) I tried to learn Swedish two years ago (I like the Scandinavian way of life ). I was doing pretty well but the "name system" blocked me. Perhaps it was only because I was beginning but I found the German system easier (der das die and so on)! Due to a lack of time I had to give up learning Swedish. I haven't been able to restart anew since then. I guess I'm too lazy
Nonetheless, thanks to my (very) small skills in Swedish I can roughly understand the general meaning of a text, provided it's not too hard nor too long (same if it's Norwegian). Don't expect me to be able to discuss with you in Swedish, though

[Lazul]

well ill try not to write in swedish to you then, hehe

btw, very of topic here, whats the "scandinavian way of life", ive never heard that before.