NTW unit layout

[ScionTheWorm]

This sounds fantastic!
These are not wishes, just some questions:
-Will there be a lot of (if not weak, then expensive) mercenaries?
-It sounds like everybody will be really poor. Will it be possible to upgrade your cities to get larger income, so we don't HAVE to conquer to get a stable economy (expensive and maybe restricted to certain provinces ports, mines etc..). Maybe this would be unrealistic; a poor city in finland would still be a poor city in finland after 5 years.

[Rodion Romanovich]

This sounds fantastic!
These are not wishes, just some questions:
-Will there be a lot of (if not weak, then expensive) mercenaries?
-It sounds like everybody will be really poor. Will it be possible to upgrade your cities to get larger income, so we don't HAVE to conquer to get a stable economy (expensive and maybe restricted to certain provinces ports, mines etc..). Maybe this would be unrealistic; a poor city in finland would still be a poor city in finland after 5 years.

Yes, it'll be balanced so that you can have a small standing royal army at all times without getting bankrupt, while at the same time upgrading your cities somewhat. However the militia can only be called in for shorter periods of time unless you conquer and upgrade a lot of things. A country that is at war too much - and thus needs it's militia all the time - will get in trouble. However a conquest of very rich lands such as Flandria and Friesia will be important improvements. The richest cities will be so much richer than the smaller cities that the player will often, when attacking a country, send his army straight for the rich capital instead of progressing by capturing one weak city after another. Often it'll be easier to conquer a country by taking the rich capital first, then sending out smaller troops for mopping up and conquering the smaller cities. However, it's also a risky thing to go deep into enemy territory unless you know much about the enemy's strength. Walls will also be more expensive so many smaller settlements will have weak or no walls, making it possible to use raid tactics in wars. Hopefully all those wishes will be possible to put together and make it work well, even with the AI.

Re mercenaries: yes, there'll be plenty of quite good mercenaries, however they'll be expensive, often even compared to a normally recruited royal army.

[The Stranger]

i've also ran some test with CAV, and saw that 20 (normal size) was the best.cat's can only beat levy hoplites/pikemen in a frontal charge. they're killer in a back charge. also if they charge the levies they loose about 40-70 of their men (only their moral keeps them in). they're big enough to be a threat but to small to use them recknessly

it's a tie with medium phalanx but most time they loose. they can charge heavy phalanx but will loose, and won't kill more that half a unit in good condition

[The Stranger]

also i tested this layout and i use it in my game, we were planning to use this in NTW (i thought, didn't got that much replies). it's very stable. the battles last longer. i'm still working on the upkeep and payment, but i will be killer.

i'm thinking of implenting

payment
food
social status
armour and weapon fund
and maybe more

[Rodion Romanovich]

also i tested this layout and i use it in my game, we were planning to use this in NTW (i thought, didn't got that much replies). it's very stable. the battles last longer. i'm still working on the upkeep and payment, but i will be killer.

i'm thinking of implenting

payment
food
social status
armour and weapon fund
and maybe more

Ok, but will your system prevent the levies from becoming too much weaker than the elite? You have plenty of zeroes etc. for the least trained troops types, so it would seem like the elite would be like 5 times better than the weakest troops. I was rather thinking that the elite would be only slightly more than twice as good as the weakest troops, which, with the R:TW engine, anyway results in them becoming up to 5 times better due to the morale leading to a quick rout. Any unit with less than 6-8 in morale routs ridiculously easy in vanilla R:TW so I don't agree entirely with your morale suggestions.

[The Stranger]

well as i know it doesn't. i don't know about you using peasants, but as long they aren't bare chested they'll get leather armour. 0 is the dedault morale. it won't make them run fast but also doesn't make them reliable. if they don't have a shield they get 0. so there only 3 important 0's.

0 for shield
0 for armour
and 0 for morale

[Rodion Romanovich]

Ok, I think armor and shield is ok but I don't think any unit should have less morale than 6.

- For infantry I'd say 8 for levies and 15 for professionals, 18 for true elite.
- For phalanx spear units I'd say morale 5 for levies, 8 for professionals and 10 for true elite. The even smaller difference for spears is because of how the game engine handles phalanx spear units differently.
- For non-phalanx spear units I'd say 7 for levies, 9 for professionals and 12 for elite.
- For non-ranged cavalry I'd say 4 for lowest quality, 6-8 for medium, 10 for professionals and 12 for elite
- For light and ranged cavalry and camels I'd say 4-5 for lowest quality, 6-7 for professionals and 8-10 for true elite
Those are only approximate values so far.

I think morale shouldn't only depend on training, certain troop types are more prone to running when it gets hot - spearmen for example can't do much when flanked and therefore were often more prone to fleeing. Infantry can handle such a situation and therefore needs better morale in order to act realistically. The worst cavalry should have a very low morale because cavalry are expensive and benefit from fleeing if they end up in a too problematic situation. The light cavalry who can escape most problems don't need much morale too do their ranged job well, but should rout much easier in meleé IMO, unless they're professionals and have hit an exposed flank of other cavalry etc. Horse archers are also more prone to "fleeing" because they are more expensive and think it's meaningless to be slaughtered in meleé.