NTW unit layout

[QuickDagger]

Hail Emperor,

Nice to meet you.

Sure ! Just let me know if you want to duscuss something.

At this moment I´m working on some skins, but I am also working on the Excell sheet about the RTW V12 vanila stats. I havent finished it yet. I´m still deciding wich types of armour should be considered, and wether how armour material should modify the values.

I undertake those 2 projects because I believe both stats and skins should (must) be all the same thing. I mean, a units armour class AC value should be allways the same for all the units skined, lets say, all units wearing chain mail should have exactly the same AC (hey! I said AC, expertise and experience should affect the FINAL DEFENCE value too). It makes the AC obvious: just take a look at that strange new enemy at the battlefield and wander what his AC should be. Its obvious: just look. But, RTW Vanilla is not that much obvious !

Please, PM me if you want to exchange any thoughts or any XLS files.

Cheers

[Rodion Romanovich]

Remember that armor values also determine how much the unit will push back the unit it engages. The armor rating is combined with charge bonus there, so it's not as logical as it might seem. Also, different chain mail had different quality - larger rings were cheaper, but less sturdy, whereas smaller rings were expensive but very effective against penetration. However, such historical details don't need to be included in the basic stats layout, they can be taken into account when the basic stats have been decided according to the layout. I think the current level of complexity for the layout is good, and we can take those details into account afterwards when we do the beta testing. In order to make those additions in a way that makes sense, we should compare units of the same type to see that we aren't overcompensating for those details.

I agree that skins should hint stats. Nothing more annoying than R:TW desert axemen with invisible armor... There's never any problem, I think, about having units with zero armor - they can have any charge strength, but units with much armor can't have a too weak charge effect, which can be problematic. Has anyone done research on which of the armor ratings it is that determine this charge push-through effect, or if all armor ratings have that effect? An alternative solution to this problem could be to add to defense skill ability for armored units that should have low charge strength, in order to give them the properties the armor gives them without increasing their charge too much... On the other hand, that could mean kataphraktoi would get lower armor rating than others, so perhaps that might force usage of lower armor ratings for most units, then put much of the armor value in the defense skill factor instead. What do you think? Is it necessary, or are the highest armor ratings low enough to allow a weak charge for the slow, heavily armored units?

[The Stranger]

Nice to meet you too

yeah i did a bit, horses with heavy armour is a nightmare, they push the line back for 10 meters (ingame). thats not really realistic. i'll do some research.
i'm talking about pushing phalanx back.
are we still using my layout. if so we might add his attack/charge layout i dont have one

[Rodion Romanovich]

Well, I think we're using yours. If QuickDagger's charge stats can be combined with your other stats then I suggest you just combine them right away, if needed with some changes so that it all works together.

[QuickDagger]

Well, I think we're using yours. If QuickDagger's charge stats can be combined with your other stats then I suggest you just combine them right away, if needed with some changes so that it all works together.

Allright Emperor. PM me and tell me your e-mail adress so that I can send you some of my stats. However, I must admit I haven´t done any reseacrh about armour-charge effects.

What I do know is that charging with a Companion cavalry is much worse on the CLOSE formation than on the LOOSE formation. On close formation the second, third and fourth ranks stop right before the impact while on LOOSE formation all the ranks keep running, thus making the charge more effective.

[QuickDagger]

@Legio,

About armour quality, I think we already have the Blacksmiths upgrades. So, I presume that (the chain mail you have talken about) differences of quality are already dealt with.

By the way, I think Blacksmiths should also translate the armour/weapon material evolution (cooper-brass-iron-steel) as well as the manufacturing thecnics such as temper, pin rings on the chain mail and a lot of other processes I have no idea on how to say them in english !

[QuickDagger]

Or something like that !

[Rodion Romanovich]

@Legio,

About armour quality, I think we already have the Blacksmiths upgrades. So, I presume that (the chain mail you have talken about) differences of quality are already dealt with.

By the way, I think Blacksmiths should also translate the armour/weapon material evolution (cooper-brass-iron-steel) as well as the manufacturing thecnics such as temper, pin rings on the chain mail and a lot of other processes I have no idea on how to say them in english !

Ok, I meant that different cultures had different techniques, meaning different units would have other differences than the blacksmith upgrades. But like I said, such and similar small details don't need to - and probably can't - be applied until last - i.e., the current type of unit layouts presented is the best starting point. That's what I meant.

[The Stranger]

my mail is umeu_1@hotmail.com i'm having a RTW gaming crisis wich i have to solve first. i will reinstall it this week.

[QuickDagger]

@Emperor

OK

@Legio

Ok, I meant that different cultures had different techniques, meaning different units would have other differences than the blacksmith upgrades.

Sure !

such and similar small details don't need to - and probably can't - be applied until last

Agree !

Did I disagree with anything ?

I also think that different culture effects should be present whenever possible/desirable. And, for sure a lot of work should not be spent on the tiny unoticed !

[Rodion Romanovich]

Did I disagree with anything ?

Ok, I must have misunderstood. No harm done

[QuickDagger]