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Thread: The English Civil War TW

  1. #1
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default The English Civil War TW

    So I have finally decided - it is possible to make this expansion to the MTW edition.

    The progress will be rather slow, because it is not the most important thing to do, but the expansion will be prepared.

    Some basic information about the expansion:

    1. Timeframe

    For now from 1642-43 to 1850 ( for game purpose) which includes Jacobite rebellions as another campaign. In future it is possible to start the campaign earlier i.e. in 1500 or similar.
    This way the expansion will be divided into 3 periods with different factions each one.

    2. Factions


    Only 4 for now.

    Cavaliers,
    Roundheads,
    Covenant Scots,
    Irish,

    3. Units

    All English, Scottish and Irish units from the PMTW will appear in the expansion, but more detailed unit lists will be prepared.

    THIS IS a request for you - if you have something to propose do it.

    I have some ideas, but I have to gather them and I will post them as soon as possible.


    4. Production time.

    This will be a little odd, that is why I am describing it under a seperate number.

    The idea is to keep 2 years as a basic production time for all basic the units - and much longer time for the buildings.
    More advanced units will have even longer production time.

    This way of recruitment is to recreate that mobilising regiments was easier in LARGER cities than in the country side. In fact this is to make some provinces more useful - especially London, because units available in those provinces will be 'produced' in a shorter time e.g. 1 year like London Trained Band Pikemen & Musketeers.

    5. Map

    The expansion should be easy to prepare, for that reason I am going to use VI map of the Isles with only minor changes e.g. some name changes.

    5. Techtree

    Buildings from PMTW will be used of course, NOT the ones from the VI ( with some exceptions made).

    Regards Cegorach

  2. #2
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    I have even more interesting idea when it comes to the production time.

    This will be used to recreate 3 factors:

    1. population
    2. wealth/military resources (arsenals)
    3. royalistic/parliamentarian support in the province

    All this means that in some provinces it will be quite easy to mobilise pretty large armies e.g. eastern England gives a very good powerbase for the Roundheads, BUT NOT TO THE CAVALIERS - their units will be pretty difficult to produce in the provinces, whereas it would be quite easy to raise a decent royalistic fighting force in Wales, Cornwall etc, but not so easy because these provinces were not the wealthiest.


    Unit list

    It is far from beeing ready, but it is something to start with.

    1. Irish Confederates

    Kern militia ( 80 men, 1 year to produce),
    Gallowglass (if they existed at that time at all) - 60M, 1Y,

    Musketeers 80M,3Y,
    Pikemen 100M,2Y,

    Veteran Musketeers (from Low Countries and similar) 60M, 4Y;
    Veteral Pikemen 80M, 3Y;

    Irish Horsemen (lance armed) 40M, 4Y;

    More units will be added for sure,

    2. Covenant Scots

    Scottish Lighthorse 40M, 3Y;
    Scottish Dragoons 30M, 4Y;

    Highlanders 80M, 1Y;
    Highlander Archers 60M, 2Y;

    Conscript Pikemen 120M, 2Y;
    Conscript Musketeers 120M, 2Y;

    Covenant Pikemen 100M, 3Y;
    Covenant Musketeers 120M, 3Y;

    Scottish Commanded Musketeers 30M, 2Y;


    Both Irish Confederates and Covenant Scots will be able to recruit units in their homelands only - basically present Ireland and Scotland.

    Irish will be able to use Highland units as well and the Scots will use some local units available in Ulster.

    This will make both factions more difficult to play and win with.


    English factions

    There will be 'mirror' units i.e. a royalistic unit and its exact copy on parliamentarian side + faction specific ones.

    MIRROR units

    Trained Band Pikemen 100M 2Y or 3Y or even 1Y prod time.
    Trained Band Musketeers 100M prod time as above.

    Pikemen 120M, 2Y or 3Y prod time
    Musketeers as above,

    'Swine Feathers' Pikemen 120M, 2Y or 3Y;

    Dragoons 40M, 3Y or 4Y


    Common units - no difference, no 'mirrors'

    Commanded Musketeers 30M, 2Y;
    Artillery Guards 30M, 3Y
    Miner teams and arlillery will be the same as in the PMTW 1.0


    Faction specific units

  3. #3
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    The ROUNDHEADS

    Cavalry

    Lobsters - 50M, 3Y - in a specific province or two - where ?
    Parliamentary Horsemen 50M, 2Y or 3Y;
    Ironsides 60M, 3Y;


    Infantry

    London Trained Band Pikemen 120M, 1Y
    London Trained Band Musketeers 120M, 1Y;
    New Model Army Pikemen 120M, 3Y;
    New Model Army Musketeers 140M, 3Y;


    The CAVALIERS

    Green Coats pikemen 100M, 3Y
    Green Coats musketeers 100M, 3Y - both only in a part of Ireland;

    White Coats - pikes 100M, 3Y
    White Coats - musketeers 100M, 3Y - only in few provinces in the north - where ?

    Cavalry

    Cavalier Horsemen - 60M, 2Y or 3Y;

    Blue Coats -60M, 3Y;
    Rupert's Lifeguards 50M, 4Y

    + the Highlander units from Scotland and some scottish cavalry:

    Gordon Horsemen 30M, 3Y,
    Gordon Dragoons 30M, 4Y,




    Mercenaries

    They won't be very numerous, most likely I will make possible to build the inn only in some provinces.

    For now:

    Mercenary Pikemen,
    Mercenary Musketeers,
    Mercenary Cuirassiers
    and Mercenary Dragoons should be enough.

    So basically I want you to correct or add anything to this list, I am especially interested in some regional/faction specific units available in some provinces only.

    I will also need more information which provinces were supporting which side if it is possible to do it at all.

    I am aware that Wales, Cornwall and Yorkshire were Royalistic and all the shires around and to the east of London were quite opposite, but it is only a start. I need more sources.

    I believe the mod can be prepared rather quicly, because it won't be vary complicated and it is just an expansion to the PMTW1, so it won't affect other projects much.

    Finally I will add that most of these units will get their new animations, but these won't be really varied, because the animations used will come from PMTW 2.0 or 3.0 ( we will see).

    Regards Cegorach

  4. #4
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    I was hoping for a Baltic wars expansion....You know with Peter the Great and all that.... Ah well...
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

  5. #5
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    This would require a new map. I have chosen the ECW because it already has a map (not the best, but still quite good) - this is the only reason I started this thread.
    The expansion is fot the MTW VI release only for now.

  6. #6
    Member Member Radier's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    You have my full support!
    I support the Pike and Musket:Total War



    Also Europa Barbarorum supporter!

  7. #7
    Dungalloigh Brehonda Member Ranika's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    Gallowglass did still exist, and fought on the Irish side, almost exclusively, in this conflict (so having them as trainable units, and not mercenaries, is appropriate). There were also 'Schianaghta', backswordsmen, used by both Scots and Irish. They used a baskethilt broadsword or a sabre slung across the lower back, and the traditional Gaelic targe shield. These were common soldiers, they also carried a pistol usually. They were better trained than clansmen, as they were part of the actual private military class the Irish and Scots had (which was fractured but still present). There were also Sciomhan in Ireland in the latter part of this period. Essentially guerillas, axes or short sabres, and pistols, and shields. Probably able to hide anywhere.
    NÝ dheachaigh fial ariamh go hIfreann.


  8. #8
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    What about commanders - you can propose some, if you want.

    I have some sources related to the irish part of the conflict like 'Munster at War' or 'Irish battles', but I would like to learn more.

    Finally - are the Irish units (see units in the RTW edition) useful - I mean cavalry especially.

    Regards Cegorach

  9. #9
    Dungalloigh Brehonda Member Ranika's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    Eh, kinda. Cavalry was used, but a bit more improvised, usually. The actual Hobilar were still around, though probably in padded coats; taghhoba would replace them later on (mounted riflemen and pistoliers; usually with sabres or backswords, which replaced longswords among the Irish and Scots).
    NÝ dheachaigh fial ariamh go hIfreann.


  10. #10
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    What about Omacach, Enniskillen Fusiliers, Oaghancocharan which ones should appear at that time ?

    Another thing - was there any irish type of troops which should appear only in specific provinces/province, I wonder ?

  11. #11
    Dungalloigh Brehonda Member Ranika's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    The Omacach, Enniskillen Fusiliers (which would only be in Ulster), and Oaghancochoran (which should only be in Connacht) all were present. In the west, they recruited Irish islanders to act as heavy shock troops (Inishscia); they would use axes in melee, and pistols in later periods, like other Irish soldiers, would be fired before their charge.
    NÝ dheachaigh fial ariamh go hIfreann.


  12. #12
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    Great info Ranika ! It will really make the Irish Confederates more interesting to play !

    Thanks as usual

  13. #13
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    I have selected more than 15 commanders for the time being. I am searching for more.

  14. #14

    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    I'm sure I read somewhere that some Welsh units went to fight in the English Civil War with longbows (very strange i know). Could be a fun unit.

    I hope you put plenty of Cornish names going on the Royalist side (seeing as the Cornish provided huge numbers of men). I also hope that you'll have non-Covenant Scots (I suppose they'll be on the Royalist side) and English/Scottish settler units from Ireland.

  15. #15
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    [QUOTE=Taffy_is_a_Taff]I'm sure I read somewhere that some Welsh units went to fight in the English Civil War with longbows (very strange i know). Could be a fun unit.

    >>>>>>>>>> I am interested in adding more variety so please give me more info about them - were they Welsh for sure ?

    Don't worry about the names

  16. #16
    Member Member streety's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    Hi Cegorach,

    I think this is a great mod idea
    From just reading the above, I've a few comments:
    Time Periods - Rather than 1642 to 1850, running the mod from 1500 to 1750 would better cover all the interesting civil wars, anglo-scottish, anglo-irish and jacobite rebellion issues. In the 16th century, as well as better known battles against the Scots like Flodden (1513), the Tudors also faced the Prayer Book Rebellion (1549) in Devon and Cornwall (to which Edward VI sent some landsknechts as well as regular troops, to quell, in series of small but interesting battles), and Kett's rebellion in Norwhich (1549). Then, although since the middle ages English kings had claimed Ireland, it increasingly becomes a near-constant issue after 1541, when Henry VIII claims himself King of Ireland, and Elizabeth I faced the Nine Year's War there (1594-1603) when Ireland rebelled against her attempt to impose religious uniformity. Then just prior to the Civil War, there was the 1st and 2nd Bishops' Wars (1638-1640), and King Charles I's troubled financing of which was partly what lead to the ultimately violent, protracted breakdown with Parliament. Following the the 1st and 2nd Civil Wars, you then have the Monmouth Rebellion (1685) and the Glorious Revolution (1688-1690, ending at the Battle of the Boyne in Ireland in 1690). Then of course the two Jacobite Rebellions in 1715-16 and 1745-46, the Battle of Culloden (1746) being the last land battle on British soil.

    Units - I understand that during the 1642-1651 Civil Wars only the Royalists employed mercenaries in any significant numbers. Yes, there were Royalist Scots, most notably lead by the Earl of Montrose. The leader of the main Cornish-Devon Royalist army in the Southwest of England was Hopton, unfortunately not a very Cornish sounding name. His Roundhead counterpart was Waller. However, there is so much historical paperwork on the Civil War that you have a wealth of actual real names of individual unit leaders to use.

    Graphics - As you know, I'm working on a generic musketeer for P&M, which will lend itself admirably to this mod, as would the generic pikeman and cavalryman I've been working on also.

    I'd be happy to help with any map and timeline queries for this new mod idea if I can.
    Cheers
    Of a tribe lost in Wessex

  17. #17
    Member Member streety's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    Oh, forgot to add:

    So that would give you three grand periods of civil or intra-British Isles wars:

    1) Tudor 1485-1603
    2) Stuart 1604-1688
    3) Union 1688-1745 ("Union", for want of a better name).

    Otherwise, within the context of the game, if you just stick to the main English Civil War of 1642-51, it would go on for a very unrealistic time-frame of 1642-1850, that you suggest (though I realise that such would be purely a work-around solution). Anyway, if/when you develop a fuller mod, you at least already have the units and much else to construct these 3 periods from your existing P&M game.

    Here's a thought, though: could you change the year-per-move system, so that each move represents just a month? That would give you a fabulous time- frame over which to fight just the main 1642-51 civil war period.
    Of a tribe lost in Wessex

  18. #18
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    Thanks streety !!

  19. #19

    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    Cegorach, I'll try to look into the Welsh troops for you some time.
    I have a list of the Cornish units and their officers' names (some of which are very Cornish) if you are also interested in that (I actually have that on hand).

  20. #20
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    Quote Originally Posted by Taffy_is_a_Taff
    Cegorach, I'll try to look into the Welsh troops for you some time.
    I have a list of the Cornish units and their officers' names (some of which are very Cornish) if you are also interested in that (I actually have that on hand).
    Post it please

  21. #21

    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    I'll get that Cornish stuff typed out when I have time.
    Have you looked at the Sealed Knot homepage?
    I'm trying to track down the Welsh reference. It would be simple if I could get back to my old high school to look it up but I was, um, asked to leave (very embaressing pettiness on behalf of the school rather than anything terrible). Anyway, I'm looking for references when I have time.

  22. #22
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    Ok

  23. #23
    Member Member Radier's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    Just a quick question Cegorach. Will you partly work on this mod and partly on PMTW 2.0? Wich will you spend most time on if so?
    I support the Pike and Musket:Total War



    Also Europa Barbarorum supporter!

  24. #24
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    This is slightly off-topic work. This expansion will be prepared, but without much effort - I am not so ambitious to make it something extraordinary.

    When I will able to finish it ?

    I have no idea, but it won't take much time to prepare it anyway.

  25. #25
    Member Member Radier's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    Ok
    I support the Pike and Musket:Total War



    Also Europa Barbarorum supporter!

  26. #26
    Member Member Sauron the Great's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    Just found this thread and just posting to say that an English Civil War mod is an excellent idea and im looking forward to see what you guys come up with (looking at P&M mod, im sure it will be excellent )
    'He who strikes the first blow, if he strikes it hard enough, may need to strike no more'.

  27. #27
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    (looking at P&M mod, im sure it will be excellent )[/QUOTE]

    Thanks

  28. #28
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    The unit roster is almost finished.

    I just need one book I have ordered and I can begfin with startpos.txt.

    Fortunatelly I have solved out the problem which didn't allow playing the campaign at all if PMTW was installed.

    So ECW will be available along with PMTW 2.0.

    Regards Cegorach

  29. #29
    Member Member Radier's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    Great news!
    I support the Pike and Musket:Total War



    Also Europa Barbarorum supporter!

  30. #30
    dictator by the people Member caesar44's Avatar
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    Default Re: The English Civil War TW

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach1

    Fortunatelly I have solved out the problem which didn't allow playing the campaign at all if PMTW was installed.

    So ECW will be available along with PMTW 2.0.

    Regards Cegorach
    PMTW ?
    ECW ?
    2.0 ?

    I don't understand this !!!
    "The essence of philosophy is to ask the eternal question that has no answer" (Aristotel) . "Yes !!!" (me) .

    "Its time we stop worrying, and get angry you know? But not angry and pick up a gun, but angry and open our minds." (Tupac Amaru Shakur)

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