Rant thread: Damn German Spearmen

**Mikeus Caesar** · 06-11-2005, 22:06

I just had a battle, where the pride of the Julii armies had to face up to a bunch of starving german barbarians, who were finally coming out of their pit after five years of being under siege. For the first five minutes of the battle, i pelted them from afar with arrows and burning catapult rocks, before deciding i had killed enough that it would be safe to go in. So i sent in my Praetorian cohorts, which numbered 4 units. They went in and started killing and killing and killing, until the Germans were down to two units of spearmen at their Plaza. So i went in with all four units, and guess what? I lost 100 Praetorians to a few barbarians with big sticks!! Is there any proof that in history germans had spear warbands like this? Hm!? Honestly!! Th4t b4ttl3 5ux0red t3h b1g one!!!1111one!!

**The_Doctor** · 06-11-2005, 22:13

Rome: Total Realism

http://www.rometotalrealism.com/

**katank** · 06-11-2005, 22:36

Well, the Romans never fully conquered Germania. That's why German is a Teutonic and not Romance language.

Those barbarians are indeed powerful. However, the spear warbands are indeed the most overpowered level one infantry unit in the game.

**Zizka** · 06-11-2005, 22:41

yes, actually, Caesar mentions the spearbands of the germans. These were not Phalanxes, Ceasar knew what those were and he would have made specific mention of them. I would guess that what the german tribes were practicing at the time was a very early version of the shieldwall, but with spears. The german tribes were never truely dominated on the field as so many other people were, it was constant give and take between Rome and the tribes.

**Red Harvest** · 06-12-2005, 04:20

Actually Caesar did state "phalanx" when describing them (I don't know how it is written in the original, but that is how it has been translated.) The problem is we don't know what he was trying to imply since phalanx could and was used rather generically at times. And by Caesar's time the hoplite/phalangite way of war was dead and buried in its former haunts. It is almost certain that this would not have been traditional hoplite or phalangite style, but it appears that he was implying some sort of disciplined formation. There is mention of long spears at some point as well. Many see this as being some sort of shield wall with long spears. We are left with conjecture. And one must also remember that the German's were not homogenous. Different tribes from different regions had varying access to weapons and particularly metallurgy. This is one of the reasons for using spears, many tribes lacked good iron at the time, so quality swords were not easy to come by.

As to the game, the attack for the spear warbands is high, but the main strengths are the high secondary attack (the same as primary) coupled with large unit size. They are not cheap, and Germania's growth rate and economics are poor. The German spearmen are pin cushions though as they lack armour, and moving in phalanx is slow...and the AI can't handle a phalanx. So I never had much trouble picking them apart piecemeal. Use your pila, javelins and any other ranged units to whittle them down. Then pin with a unit on the front and hit with another in the rear. Do this on the ends and rout each unit before support comes up. This is called "defeating in detail."

**BrutalDictatorship** · 06-12-2005, 06:21

Red Harvest dude...thank you very much for your sig...gave me a well needed, hard laugh tonight...

Thats the best sig I've seen in ages...

**player1** · 06-12-2005, 07:43

Interesting to point out is that pre-patch these guys were really useless, since they lacked secondary attack completly (which lead to auto-rount when phalanx was turned off).

**Mikeus Caesar** · 06-12-2005, 11:38

Yes, i also noticed that they appear to have no secondary attack, which leads to auto-rout. To save the few preatorians i had left, i charged my Legionary Cavalry into their rear, and because the warband couldn't turn their spears around and because they had no secondary weapon, they auto-routed, which shouldn't have happened because the little box that pops up when your hold your mouse over them said that they were 'happy flanks are protected' and that 'victory seems imminent', so in future, rather than fighting head on, i'll bring some guys round back.

**vastator** · 06-12-2005, 14:45

In my campaign I've simply deleted the phalanx ability for German spearmen. After all, Germany was heavily forested at the time, and forests are one place a phalanx can't be used.

**Red Harvest** · 06-12-2005, 21:19

I never had any trouble with the German Spearmen before 1.2 (using them). I simply formed up lines of spearmen and used the "march through" attack. Never experienced the auto rout in my German campaign back in 1.1. In fact it was that campaign that led me to re-evaluate what was wrong with the carthaginian and greek phalanx--primarily smaller unit size, although we also later learned about the secondary attack bug that applied to all those roman pila units...giving them an extra +4 attack.

**Rodion Romanovich** · 06-14-2005, 10:40

I like them :). In my germania vh/vh campaign I sallied from a city, Samarobriva I think, with 4 german spear warband and 1 general against 10 briton warband, 2 barb mercs, 2 swordsmen, 3 woad warriors, 1 head hurler, 1 chariot general, 1 chariot archer. I went out with my entire little army through a gate on the side and formed a line and prepared to move towards the enemy, hoping to get as many of them as possible to run into my spears before the inevitable, or so I thought, slaughter.

I used the city wall to cover my right flank, and was prepared to bend in the left flank for cover if necessary. Also I think I kept one of the warbands for reserve against flanking enemies. While I was moving this way towards the front, the britons started an attack. But they had previously used a very long, thin line formation in front of the front gates of the city, and now they were spread out over a long distance while attacking, coming 5-7 units at the time charging into one or two of my pike units. I lowered the pikes, and it was undoubtedly one of the most laughable battles I've ever fought.

One by one the briton infantry units were routed, in some cases thanks to my cavalry charging their flank while another spear warband moved ahead of the spear warband engaged to cover the flank of the cavalry. The enemy chariots also charged towards my flank and rear, but luckily enough the enemy infantry where attacking the two spear warbands closest to the wall, so I didn't need all spears agains them, and could turn some against the chariots. With the help of my general, who took some serious casualties, the chariots where routed and the enemy general killed. The towers also killed some britons. Finally, I found myself having routed the entire enemy army!

Unfortunately they were able to rally - my cavalry had taken too many casualties to be able to pursuit (and the chariots had also rallied early and would be dangerous to my general). They didn't attack again, and I decided it was best to retreat into the city again and end the battle, because my spear warbands had inflicted so many casualties (including most of the enemy chariots), that a small force of 2 warbands and 4 barb cavs I had sent as reinforcements could easily lift the siege from the outside the same turn (they were listed as reinforcements for the sally battle but of course never showed up...).