Names

[Csatadi]

Are there offices? Really?

Magyars had 3 kind of (known) offices.

Kende - sybolic leader
Gyula - military leader
Horka - judge

The exact use of the word gyula by the Magyars is unclear but, based on contemporary sources, many Hungarian historians believe that under the system of dual kingship which the Magyars used in the 9th century, the two kings of the tribal confederation were the kende (or kündü) and the gyula. While the former was the nominal leader, the latter was the chief warlord or military commander.

Horka or harka was a title used by the Magyar tribes in the 9th and centuries. According to Emperor Constantine Porphyrogennetos in De administrando imperio, the horka had judicial authority. However, in other sources the term horka was applied to a military leader (such as Bulcsú who led the Magyar forces at the Battle of Lechfeld). Certainly at some point in the 10th century the roles of horka and gyula (the chief warlord) had became similar, with the horka having authority in Western Transdanubia and the gyula in Transylvania in the east. In later sources the word appears only as a personal name.

The Faction leader can be the kende with many but only influence bonus. The Gyula can play the role of the faction heir as a commanding leader. I suggest to choose the Gyula by the command rank of the characters instead of the influence (?).
The Horka can be a trait, too but the other two cannot get this office. He may get law bonus - what else?

[Nacheras]

Sorry, but I have not ever heard about "missi dominici" at asturian royal court.

They had personal bodyguards called gardingi or fideles, as in gothic times, and other court offices.
I am still looking for that information.
I´ll post here when I find it.

Thanks.

[Rodion Romanovich]

I hadn't thought of offices yet, but it's good. One example I can think of ATM is the BEK for the Khazar Khaganate. The faction leader is the khagan, but the Bek is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces, and in practise held much of the real power. Could be and office associated with influence and command stars.

[Csatadi]

I hadn't thought of offices yet, but it's good. One example I can think of ATM is the BEK for the Khazar Khaganate. The faction leader is the khagan, but the Bek is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces, and in practise held much of the real power. Could be and office associated with influence and command stars.

Please, what do the ATM and the BEK mean? And HRE?

Btw Magyars got the idea of dual kingship from the Khazars.

[Meneldil]

Please, what do the ATM and the BEK mean? And HRE?

Btw Magyars got the idea of dual kingship from the Khazars.

ATM = At The Moment
HRE = Holy Roman Empire or the Central Frankish Kingdom, which is somewhat unhistorical for our period.
BEK = I think that's just the word Bek with caps

[Csatadi]

Meneldil: thanks. I found also 'bek'.

[Nacheras]

I have looked at all my history books and knowed history links and I have found poorly information about asturican court.

king Alfonsus II (800-842) restored gothic Aula Regia (or royal Court). I´m not sure he restored exactly, but I am going to put you the offices of gothic Aula Regia in order to allow you use some of them (choose yourself as you like) as asturican offices.

- Rex (king) or faction leader.
- dux (duke): military head of a province and usually also civil power. The only historical asturican dux was dux of Galicia (dux Galicarum). (++ influence)
- Comites- singular comes (Count): were two kind of counts: local counts, as governors of towns and counties, and comites of "officia palatina" (royal court offices)

a) About local counts we know the powerful count of Castille (comes Castellarum) (+ influence and probably + command due to be a border county), count of Alava (+ influence), count of Bierzo (+ influence), count of Bureba (+ influence), count of Viseo (+ influence), count of Lugo (+ influence), count of Saldaña (or Saldania if you have not ñ) (+ influence), count of Carrion (+ influence), count of Dueñas/Duenias (+ influence)

b) royal court offices (remember, gothic offices, could not be as exactly as in asturias):
- comes cubiculi: as in roman times, reliable person near the king, in order to advise him. (++ influence, - personal security, because of the envy and the court plots)
- comes scanciarum: similar to majordomus in frank kingdom, but with no comparable power (+ influence)
- comes thesaurorum: head of the royal treasure. (++ management, + tax collection- he does not listen at odd tales at the moment of tax collection )
- comes patrimonii: administrator about royal inheritance possesions (+ management, could be + farmer and trader)
- comes notariarum: he controls all the documents of the chancellory (+ management, + influence)
- comes stabuli: head of the royal stables (I suposse + when command cavalry...)
- comes spatariorum: head of the personal royal bodyguards (+ perosnal security and could be + command). I think this office really doesn´t exist at asturican times, so be sensible about it.
- comes civitatis: major of the royal court town. Depend on where you put the capital it could be comes civitatis ovetensis or comes civitatis legionensis, but I think if you are going to let the player to move the capital it could be wise name it as simple "comes regis civitatis". (+ influence, + personal security)

Of course I will try to achive historial sure asturican offices, but you can begin with these ones.
Good work, guys!

[Nacheras]

Here am I again... :)

I think about agents (spy, diplomat, assasin), and could be you want to put surnames to them.

You can use the name+az or -ez about I´ve talking about yet. i.e Froilaz, Garces, Fernandez, Gonzalez, Ansurez, Sanchez, Velez, Vermudez, Ordoniez, Menendez, Ximenez or Jimenez, Nuniez, Munaz, Dieguez or Diaz...

In fact, I think that at IX century only the great nobles (magnates) used surname.

You can use the name of the birth town too. And then I provide you of a good list of towns to add as "of..." to the name:
Cangas, Pravia, Compostela, Valtierra, Gijon, Cosgaya, Tuy, Astorga (Asturica), Lugo (Lucus), Oporto, Braga, Chavez, Viseo, Simancas, Ledesma, Agueda, Salamanca, Zamora, Toro, Saldaña, Mabe, Amaya, Oca, Avila, Segovia, Sepúlveda, Clunica, Arganza, Osma, Miranda, Revenga, Cenicero, Carbonaria, Alesanco,Palencia, Valladolid, Sahagun, Santillana, Burgos, Lamego, Soria, Coca, Vitoria, Calahorra, Najera, Orense, Mieres.

[Meneldil]

Here am I again... :)


You can use the name of the birth town too. And then I provide you of a good list of towns to add as "of..." to the name:
Cangas, Pravia, Compostela, Valtierra, Gijon, Cosgaya, Tuy, Astorga (Asturica), Lugo (Lucus), Oporto, Braga, Chavez, Viseo, Simancas, Ledesma, Agueda, Salamanca, Zamora, Toro, Saldaña, Mabe, Amaya, Oca, Avila, Segovia, Sepúlveda, Clunica, Arganza, Osma, Miranda, Revenga, Cenicero, Carbonaria, Alesanco,Palencia, Valladolid, Sahagun, Santillana, Burgos, Lamego, Soria, Coca, Vitoria, Calahorra, Najera, Orense, Mieres.

Unfortunatly, agents and characters share the same name lists, so either we use surnames for everyone (except captains) or we don't use them at all. Do you know an 'asturian' equivalent for 'of' ? 'De' ?