English Civil War mod

**thrashaholic** · 02-07-2004, 12:29

I just came up with this idea right now(

) . How about an English Civil war mod, not wars of the roses, but the Royalists and Parliamentarians of the Stuart era... I haven't though this through much so I can't give details (they'll come later), but I think this would be a great idea for a mod

Of course I'd like some help

, anyone?

Thrashaholic

**Marshal Murat** · 02-07-2004, 13:39

Loyalist:Bunch of Lords and such support the King
Parilamentrist(something like that):Support the Parilments jurisdiction over the King

Bunch of battles won by the Parilament, but in the end, Charles son was restored to the throne.

There is also a New Model army, Cromwell need to include that. Bunch of guns and swords mostly.

**thrashaholic** · 02-07-2004, 13:56

OK, I'm looking at making it start at 1642 and letting it run on from there. The factions will of course be the Roundheads and the Cavileers, and maybe an Irish faction (they were being attacked by the English at the time) and perhaps a rebel Scottish army (after the Bishops Wars).
I've got some details on the armies involved (doing research as we speak) there was the New Model Army, and the army still loyal to the crown. Royalist support was predominant in the North, West, and Wales, whereas the Parliamentarians supporters were from the richer South (including London).

Help on the modding side of things would be very useful (I'm a relative newbie on that side of things),

Thrashaholic

**thrashaholic** · 02-07-2004, 14:00

Just had a thought, how about the having the Dutch (the House of Orange) and possibly French as factions as well, they both supported the Royals. (I'm gonna need a new map for this, doh)

Thrashaholic

**thrashaholic** · 02-07-2004, 16:12

OK, I've done some more research, on units this time:

Infantry:

Pikemen,
Match lock muskets (less expensive, slower firing, less reliable in rain)
Flint lock muskets (opposite of match lock info)

Cavalry:

Dragoons
Pistoleers (cavalry with pistols)
"Lobsters" (heavy cavalry in full body plate armour, very expensive)
Light cavalry

Artillery:

artillery pieces of varying size and strength.

Hopefully this'll tickle all of your fancies a bit more, anyone interested?

Thrashaholic

**Marshal Murat** · 02-07-2004, 18:04

Hey Thrash, why not use the Viking Invasion map.
Just rename a few places. Also, your going to need to get a good modder to change the French area.

Also, you should ask around to maybe get a few models for your game.
The Lordz are busy, but maybe ask Duke John, or a model person from the HTW. Or you could try it yourself.

**Flamininus** · 02-07-2004, 19:09

The Civil war wasn't just restricted to England it was fought in Scotland as well. You could include the Roylists led by the Earl of Montrose, Highland clans etc and the Covenanters for parliament, the Covenanters later came south into England to aide the English parliament forces. You can also use Fraser's Dragoons and the Scots also used some lancers

Mercenary units from the continent etc. Cuirassiers (heavy cavalry) were used during the early years by both sides before the advent of the New Model Army.

Hope this gives you some more ideas.

**thrashaholic** · 02-07-2004, 19:11

Thanks for the info. You seem to know your stuff Flaminus, maybe you'd like to help?

Thrashaholic

**Thoros of Myr** · 02-07-2004, 21:00

Nice idea thrashaholic...to an american like myself this mod is intriguing as this bit of history isint widely known over here.

**thrashaholic** · 02-07-2004, 21:05

Thoros, I'm glad you've taken an interest in my idea.

Here's a good site about it if you want...http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~crossby/ECW/

It gives some really good information about the civil war, this has been my main source so far.

Thrashaholic

***Ringo*** · 02-08-2004, 14:16

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Thoros of Myr @ Feb. 07 2004,20:00)]...to an American like myself this mod is intriguing as this bit of history isn't widely known over here.

It's surprising that this historical event isn't widely known about; as I believe this was the first time power had been taken from a, so called, infallible Royal line

Giving birth to the early signs of democracy

I maybe totally wrong about that but that's the impression i got from the sources i've read.

In terms of an actual mod, this sound very interesting and in fact was something i was thinking about doing myself

So i will be happy to give any help i can. I'm not too experienced in the modding department but learn very fast. I'm comfortable editing .txt files and have just started one or two new units of my own

Time is going to be the only factor that restricts me. Unfortunately i have a very busy life, with work, family etc... But i will be able to help out a bit.

Keep exploring the idea and see where it takes you....

... and good luck.

All the best

*Ringo*

**thrashaholic** · 02-08-2004, 15:22

OK I've come up with a faction list, all would be playable, tell me what you think:

The Parliamentarians

The "roundheads" with their NEW MODEL ARMY, they'd control most of the south (the richest lands) and parts of scotland.

The Royalists

The "cavaliers" raising their armies from the supporting Lords and land-owners, they'd control the north, wales, cornwall and ulster.

Scotish Rebels

Raised from the clans opposed to the English after their attempt to impose Anglicanism on the Scottish. They'd control lands not loyal to parliament or the royals. (I'm not to sure on my scottish history, maybe someone could fill me in on some details?)

Irish Rebels

Raised from the Irish or southern Ireland who were opposed to English rule. They'd controll all the provinces in Ireland except Ulster who were mainly English and so still loyal to the crown.

Thrashaholic

**Auxilia** · 02-09-2004, 21:56

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (thrashaholic @ Feb. 08 2004,08:22)]OK I've come up with a faction list, all would be playable, tell me what you think:

This sounds like a great mod

Just a few suggestions, thrashaholic - you say you need some gaps filled in re history and so on so here goes:-

Parliament

Spot on with the geographical aspect. Two of the many factors in their victory was their control of London - which they never lost - and significantly the fact that most of the navy sided with them, making it tricky for the Royalists to gather help from Queen Henrietta's French relatives. The New Model Army did not appear until 1644 (or thereabouts) but evenbefore this time the Parliamentarian army was not that bad (I can do a unit list for you if you like, together with some personalities you might consider for the mod).

Royalist

Again you're dead right on where their sphere of influence lay. They could very intermittently call on support from Ireland, Scotland and the continent but mostly they were on their own - this was in every sense a Civil War. Their armies remained unchanged for much of the conflict - in terms of equipment and good commanders, they probably just about had the edge early on, but losing it later.

Scotland

This is were things get complicated One of the myriad causes of the war was the attempt by Charles to impose religious practices offensive to the fiercely Protestant Scots (those opposed to these reforms became known as the Covenanters). A series of skirmishes known as the Bishop's Wars led to a hugely embarrassing climb down for the crown - the Covenanters didn't forget this affrontery and allied with Parliament half-way through the war. But Charles after his own defeat convinced them to swap sides. Just to complicate things further there was always a significant Royalist faction in Scotland, led for the most part by the Earl of Montrose who inflicted, with limited resources, a series of embarrasing defeats on forces allied to Parliament. You might consider making this a playable faction and let the player do his own thing. Oh yes - the Covenanters had there powerbases to the South mainly around the bigger towns and cities with the Royalists drawn from the Highlands (and from Ireland).

Ireland

I could bore you for hours with this one as well

Here are the main points 1)Big rebellion in the 1640s - Parliament wouldn't vote Charles money for an army.

2)Mainly sided with Charles as he was sympathetic to Catholicism for which 3) Cromwell took a terrible revenge on the Irish in the late 1640's after the Royalist defeat.

My Irish history is a little sketchy - sorry

Hope this helps - as I've said, I'd be delighted to do a unit/personality list for you.

**thrashaholic** · 02-09-2004, 22:11

Auxila, that would be brilliant

, I thought those factions would roughly depict the general scene at the beginning, so really I just needed to know the starting lands at the beginning of the war.

Oh, btw, I've been doing a little research into faction flags and got some good ones for the royalists and parliamentarians.

I haven't been able to do much work on the mod yet though, so if anyone who wants to be involved drop me a mail at verbal_razors@hotmail.com and I'll start getting this organised. (So far I think Marshal Murat, Flaminus, Ringo, and Auxila have shown interest in this, if you could mail me as well that would be useful)

Thrashaholic

**Oberstein** · 02-10-2004, 01:48

How can you make Pike & Musket tactics work well within the Medieval engine? I mean troops are presumably used to gunfire by this point, so you might want to use the Arbalester flag as opposed to a 'gunpowder' unit.

**thrashaholic** · 02-10-2004, 15:28

A little update: I'm now redoing the strategy map so it has the names of the counties on it replacing the viking province names. At the moment I'm not going to go as far as altering the lukupmaps, I think the VI map should suffice. I thought the map would be a good place to start.

Thrashaholic

**Marshal Murat** · 02-11-2004, 03:07

Gunpowder and Pike, thats tough.
I would say that i would most likely mix the Pikemen with arb troops. Have the Arbquebs stand in front of the pikemen, and then when cavalry charge home, pull forward your pikemen.

**thrashaholic** · 02-11-2004, 08:42

Apparently the tactics of the time were to have a block of pikemen sandwiched between two blocks of muskets, and then if they were attacked the pikes would pull forward and create a shield for the muskets, basically what Marsal Murat said, and if attacked by cavalry the pikes would create a square around their muskets, which I know cannot be done with the MTW engine, but......use your imagination

I'm sure there are lots of tactics that could be implemented that the MTW can do.

Btw I've finished my alterations on the maptex maps, yet to test them in game though.

Thrashaholic

**Flamininus** · 02-11-2004, 10:52

A few small points of interest, the Royalist had the edge in cavalry untill the new model army and Cromwells "Ironsides" came on the scene. New Model Army musketeers were capabale of volley fire a rarity up untill then.

Prince Rupert was the Kings nephew and German, I believe he brought his own regiment of cavalry over with him.

A lot of people finaly turned agains Charles when they learnt he was considering asking the French for troops, not very popular at the time

And by the way, it was not uncommon for people to change sides several times during this period.

**Flamininus** · 02-11-2004, 13:34

I came across some army details in a wargames book of mine for the period.

Royalists
Heavy class cavalry
Pikemen
Musketeers
Dragoons
Train Guard
Levies - improvised weapons
Heavy,Medium and Light guns
Galloper Gun (Mounted crew)

New Model Army (Disiplined troops)
Heavy class cavalry
Pikemen
Musketeers
Dragoons
Heavy and light guns

Scots Royalist Army - Marquis of Montrose
Gordon Horse - Medium cavalry, pistols sword
Gordon Foot - Musket and sword
Irish - Musket, 2 handed sword or swordsmen with shield (fanatical, fire salvos?)
Highlanders - Musket, sword and shield or 2 handed sword (Fanatical?) Some low morale some high morale
Kilponts Archers - Longbow
Light gun

Scots Covenanter
Medium cavalry - lance,pistol,sword or pistol and sword
Dragoons- (Frasers dragoons capable of fighting mounted)
Pikemen
Musketeers
Highlanders- Sword and shield, 2 handed sword, Musket (low morale)
Heavy, medium and light guns

Charles had troops in Ireland, if he could make peace with the Irish catholic rebels he had hoped to recall them and possibly form an alliance with the Irish. He also had the possibility of counting on support from Holland, Denmark and Portugal.

Parliament controlled the navy and most of the ports

**thrashaholic** · 02-11-2004, 20:48

Thanks for the info Flaminus

I'm pleased to say that the new Maptex files work in game, so now work can begin on planning the factions, Auxilia has been helping me with this, and your information will be useful Flaminus.

Thrashaholic

**Flamininus** · 02-11-2004, 21:22

I look forward to this mod coming out.

**thrashaholic** · 02-11-2004, 22:23

I have a half-term week next week, so hopefully I can get down to some serious modding (as long as I don't have too much coursework

), I'll try and get as much done as possible.

Thrashaholic

PS Maybe it would be cool if an HRE style of succession (not that there'll be much succession in the game) could be implemented for the parliamentarians, I don't know how to do this though.....

I'll look around the files

**thrashaholic** · 02-12-2004, 20:41

OK we have a definite faction list

They will be five factions:

The Parliamentarians

Control the rich south (except for oxforfordshire) where the ports and merchants etc. are. Better developed.

The Royalists

Control the North, Wales, Oxfordshire, Cornwall and Ulster

The Scottish Royalists(this name will probably be changed)

Control the Scottish highlands.

The Scottish Covanenters

Control the Scottish lowlands.

The Irish

Control Southern Ireland.

Hope this meets everyones approval

I'm now trying to work on a tech tree, all suggestions are more than welcome....

Thrashaholic

**TheSilverKnight** · 02-13-2004, 20:23

Sounds good mate. Looking forward to this coming out

**NagatsukaShumi** · 02-13-2004, 21:23

Hi thrashaholic

It is entirely possible to use the HRE in your MOD. I just took 10 minutes to try this out and it is indeed possible to add the HRE to the Viking Invasion campaign and this means you can use them for your Parliamentarians in your MOD. If you would like me to help you add them in for you feel free to e-mail me at samandshirley@splaxton.fsnet.co.uk

**Lord Flasheart** · 02-15-2004, 12:04

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (thrashaholic @ Feb. 12 2004,13:41)]The Scottish Royalists(this name will probably be changed)

Why would you need to change it? That is, historically, one of the names used for the 'faction.'

If you did change it the only real option would be the shorter Scots Royalists.

Anyway, since nobody else has spotted this golden opportunity I'm going to humbly request that you make all the highlanders in the mod Farquharsons

.