Concerning a strategic campaign...request for contact.

**BSM_Skkzarg** · 08-21-2001, 08:17

This post is to request that Magyar, Obake, TheDaimyo, JayDee, Elmarko, and Tosa Inu all contact me via ICQ at 6211187 concerning the possibility of a strategic campaign being made available to the shogun and we/mi community. I have spoken to Terezawa and Anssi both via ICQ concerning this project - and both have stated their full support (to be honest they both were stunned speechless by what they saw. LOL). Both agreed that what I have in place at this moment is the best possibility for a campaign in the near term. I need to speak to each of you, get your feedback and hopefully your willingness to work with me on this to make it a reality. I should speak to Erado very soon and expect to have his full support as well. To repeat what I told Terezawa - this is NOT a fly by nite project, but one that has been developed over the course of 2 years by a core of 10 people and the input of 70. Its conversion to Shogun is very possible, and will be a great benefit to the community. I look forward to recieving your hails.

Qapla!
BSM_Skkzarg

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

**Erado San** · 08-21-2001, 17:48

If this is anything like I am thinking it is you have my support, no Problemo.

**BSM_Skkzarg** · 08-22-2001, 05:37

I just finished a discussion with Erado over the idea, and he has given his support to it. Regretably, he will be unable to assist in the development effort - but has promised to assist in gaining certain resources we may need. Simply put - this is a possible solution to the lack of multiplayer campaigns. Will it be perfect - no. But it will be a very large step forward and could become a great thing for the community. To date - other than Jaydee, the people I have requested contact me have not. Granted, not much time has passed - but the sooner we all get on the same page the sooner progress can be made. Talk to me ppl...

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

08-22-2001, 05:55

I will help you m8.

Its a great idea.

I suggest that Kraellin and Puzz3d can help great too.

Tera

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Honour to Clan No Fear.

Visit my resource centre here!
Evil is within us...

**MagyarKhans Cham** · 08-22-2001, 06:35

i send an icq request/.

**The Daimyo** · 08-22-2001, 19:38

Sorry I haven't replied to you yet on this. My PC decided to take 2 big dumps on me in the past 2 days. I'm still fixing it up. I'll let you know what my input may be on this as soon as I get some sleep. (ie. 12-16 hours from now, after I get up and do some work, USA here, it's butt-crack'o'dawn, time for me to hit the coffin

)

Looks interesting, from what I've read.

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The Daimyo
Miaowara "Kakizaki" Tomokato
@ http://www.planettotalwar.com

**Vanya** · 08-22-2001, 21:16

Tell us... what is this you speak of so fondly? The overall concept is inherently appealing, but its implementation will dictate its livelihood. Spill the beans, so we may gaze into the genius of your design (or lack thereof) and offer you the support warranted...

If 3 people fight a MP campaign in an obscure basement and nobody else sees them or hears of them... is MP campaigning possible? Arguably, not.

**BSM_Skkzarg** · 08-23-2001, 00:38

Vanya,

As far as possible - yes the online campaign can be done. The "plan" is not my genius, but rather an adaptation of a campaign game that my fleet has run for 2 years. The game was designed based on star trek genre games, but everyone who has seen it understands how well it could port to shogun. And I did not design it alone, but rather a group of ppl did, I among them. This is what I want to do here - have a core group of the most respected members who are willing to devote the time needed to this - work with them to get a ruleset and a forum for the game built - iron out the "bugs", and present a working build to the community for further refinement.

What is needed is someone (or some 2) who knows databases, a web guru or 2, and someone to work with me balancing the ruleset. This small group will work as a council to develop the port. Each member will vote on following rule changes before it is introduced to the community as a whole. That way what is produced is a collective and fair effort with the credibility of the makers behind it.

From the needs I have described one could infer what I am intending. However, as I said, since I have an already functioning game as a basis, the probability of success is great. Without trying to sound conceited - I do not want to show what I have publicly because doing so will likely result in a rush of projects all aimed at the same thing with varying results of quality - I want this to succeed for the community and if I am a bit secretive over this that is why. Better to do it right than have 500 attempts with failures - that will lose the interest of the community.

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

**Vanya** · 08-23-2001, 00:58

LOL The database is the easy part! Its figuring out how you want things to run from an 'experience' point of view that is the hard thing! Determining the level of complexity you want to model can be a huge factor here...

**Magyar Khan** · 08-23-2001, 01:30

hmmm dont let me work on rulesets i had my bit of that

at www.campaign.club.tip.nl

for me there is more will to play a campaign amongst us but we lack to make it a real succes...

**Vanya** · 08-23-2001, 04:23

He he... the way I had envisioned it in the past sought to minimize the need to coordinate with your fellow gamers, which is the biggest challenge for these things anyway and still allow a variety of people to create and play in many campaigns at the same time with users from anywhere. The database, and even the control logic was quite easy and straight-forward... the dev challenge was 'the look and feel'...

When it comes to software, no greater truth exists than this: You can spend 1000 hours developing a great engine and 10 minutes making a marketing logo. But in the end, it will be the visual logo that you shall be remembered by...

08-23-2001, 04:40

Magy, basically it's something like your campaign but using web-based automated systems and other things.

It's a nice thing, we can develop it to incorporate the Mongols too.

Tera

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Honour to Clan No Fear.

Visit my resource centre here!
Evil is within us...

**Vanya** · 08-23-2001, 05:33

And forget trickle-down implementation! Design the whole enchilada up-front, even if you decide to implement it in pieces.

That way you wont have to redo everything to incorporate some new bell or whistle you forgot the first time through...

**Catiline** · 08-23-2001, 06:55

good luck with all this lads

BSM_Skkzarg check mail plz

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Oderint dum metuant

**BSM_Skkzarg** · 08-23-2001, 07:19

Great points all. Since it looks like there is a serious interest on this - I will provide a bit more detail. Basically the web will offer a map. The map itself will be similiar to - if not the one - from Shogun. (This being contingent on getting an ok to use it from the powers that be... shouldnt be a problem.) The database will do all the work - from the economics to the strategic unit chances of success and resolution - to resolving all the game logic and spitting the result back out in an HTML format. This will allow the various players to login and see the map just as in the Shogun Game. They then can submit their moves - preferably by web page - which will be input into the DB for resolution. In cases of battle - old EAPlay is fired up and the results of the fight are submitted. That way, all the various things such as unit type, honor, armor and weapon upgrades, economy, infrastructure and strategic units can be kept up with and still not require massive effort every update.

As you can see - this is NOT a simple project, but one that will require alot of dedication, work and communication between the various ppl involved. The BSM (a GSA/Kahn Fleet) has used this type of setup for over 2 years, excluding the automation part. Thats the key - doing the work up front to keep from getting bogged down once the games begin.

As I said - the idea works - now... who else wants to be part of this?

The pay is lousy, the hours suck, the toilet tissue is single ply....... welcome aboard!
ROFL!

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

**Algesan** · 08-23-2001, 13:56

Ok, it sounds like the quick and dirty concept I had for implementing a MP campaign. First flaws I see are possible manipulation of the database by the players. You may have it covered, but be sure and have some kind of error checking to notice problems between data sets. Two ways this will become irrelevant are in a human moderated game or if you really trust your fellow players.

**BSM_Skkzarg** · 08-23-2001, 20:17

Algesan,

Since this exact idea has been in use for 2 years in another forum - there is a simple answer to this. The DB is not modifiable by the players... period.
Things such as battle outcomes, survivors and their type, honor and # etc are reported after battle. The way you make this beyond question is both sides take a screenshot of the after-action battle report for their side, and if there ever is a question it can be compared to the data the player put into the DB during the report.

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

**Vanya** · 08-23-2001, 21:11

Better yet: make each player involved in a battle submit their log file. Once all logfiles for a given battle have been received (auto-submitted, no emailing to people, since that would not be automated!), they will be 'processed' and if any variances are found, the result is discarded until logfiles that match are submitted. I'm not saying check koku limits -- but you could... just keep in mind these are not 100% accurate all the time...

If you want to trust the users and allow them to enter the info themselves, then make each player do it and only accept the result if all entries match perfectly.

And you can have them submit the screen shot to the site and have it stored in the DB too...

I hope you are not going to be using Access for this... [*shudders at the thought of using Access to host a truly multi-user web app*]

Make for many maps of differing sizes... have a map of Kyushu only, one of Shikoku only, one of current STW map, one of Japan plus Hokkaido, one of all Japan plus Korea, and another that adds Manchuria.

When you create a campaign, you pick the map. Make it so each map has a max number of players (ie, Kyushu only max is 6, Japan + Korea + Manchuria max is 24...).

**Shiro** · 08-24-2001, 02:10

Great stuff guys! I'm not any help really in anything, but you have my full support. Anything I can do for you, just ICQ, e-mail, or do whatvever you have to do to contact me.

**BSM_Skkzarg** · 08-24-2001, 04:07

So - here we are ... all talking about how great an idea it may be etc... so
here is what I need

2 web guru's
1 or 2 database guru's (SQL2k preferred - but anything will do!)
1 person to work with me on the rules

any takers?

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

08-24-2001, 05:25

Since I can't do the website stuff I think I can help with the rules.

I think we need some others for the rules, though.

------------------
Honour to Clan No Fear.

Visit my resource centre here!
Evil is within us...

**BSM_Skkzarg** · 08-24-2001, 09:45

Terazawa - great! I would think we would want to stay as close to the current Shogun rules as far as strategic units etc...
We will get into some depth over ICQ.

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

**EuroSan** · 08-25-2001, 01:27

Well i have some basic Dreamweaver4 skills..so you need any help with that bep me on icq 24395658
And i could also help you with the rule things......

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May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

**UglyElmo** · 08-25-2001, 02:23

I will be cvhanging shifts in a week and a half and then I will know my scedule and will help in any way possible. Sorry about coming late, but I don;t normally look in this section.

**BSM_Skkzarg** · 08-26-2001, 00:23

Hmm - any DB's out there????
A couple of web folks as well???

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

**qwertyuiop** · 08-26-2001, 08:57

I can help in programming, give me some specifics on what I would need to be writting if you need me.

T

**qwertyuiop** · 08-26-2001, 09:07

I have made a similar game to this in java. Well it had building attacking and renforcing from different planets.
I remade Galactic Conquest if anyone has heard of it except it had the capacity for a unlimited number of players and such.

But I have never done anything online like this.

I know client side scripting well but don't have time to learn somthing like ASP or JSP.

Has anywork been done yet?

**EuroSan** · 08-26-2001, 14:04

Vanya got the programing skills!!!

Join in Vanya mate!!

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May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

**MagyarKhans Cham** · 08-26-2001, 17:03

my KHan programms simple stuff in visual basic, like his logfilereader and campaignprgogramm at www.totalwar.club.tip.nl

see downloads section

**EuroSan** · 08-26-2001, 21:28

No offence joska mate, but if you seen Vanya´s logreader you would be suprised to see what a logreader can do...

Wish you could make it an offical one vanya mate

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May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

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