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Thread: Can someone explain German Law to me?

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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Can someone explain German Law to me?

    http://ingeb.org/garb/SA2002.html

    I was reading that, and to me it seems like Germany in modern times is practicing a similar censorship as it did 65 years ago. Is it just me or is this political discrimination and the silencing of all opposition to Gerhard Schroeder and his Social Democrats? Wouldn't it be disallowing the youth to form their own opinion if you block them by seeing all sides of the story? Is it just me or do they seem to be silencing right wing extremism only, as in it's wrong to be a fascist, but it's ok to be a communist or left-wing radical anarchist? I'm so very confused! Is any of this true? Can some of our German comrades explain this to me?

    Why do you hate Freedom?
    The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.

  2. #2
    (Insert innuendo here) Member Balloon Bomber Champion DemonArchangel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    Good god, i'm leaving for Germany for my summer job on Monday. The last thing I need is racist idiots giving me shit over there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    China is not a world power. China is the world, and it's surrounded by a ring of tiny and short-lived civilisations like the Americas, Europeans, Mongols, Moghuls, Indians, Franks, Romans, Japanese, Koreans.

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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    I'm leaving Saturday. Looks like I won't be coming back for a very long time.
    It looks to me like Germany is going down the path that it took 70 years ago. And unless someone steps in and ends such censorship, history will repeat itself. Or at least, that is what I fear.

    Why do you hate Freedom?
    The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.

  4. #4
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    huh?
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    wow what a great post by JAG!

    Why do you hate Freedom?
    The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.

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    The Blade Member JimBob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    as in it's wrong to be a fascist, but it's ok to be a communist or left-wing radical anarchist?
    Okay I have two requests: 1) Please stop throwing left-wing ideologies around like they're all the same. Because fact is we (anarchists) don't really like communists (even the syndicalists don't) why? They believe in big government, and we believe in no government. They are authoritarians, we are individualists.
    2) Explain to me how a Social Democrat government (or any government) would say its okay to support anarchists? I mean we are their greatest enemy, we want to end them.
    Sometimes I slumber on a bed of roses
    Sometimes I crash in the weeds
    One day a bowl full of cherries
    One night I'm suckin' on lemons and spittin' out the seeds
    -Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers, Lemons

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    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    Ahh anarchists fools and idiots all.
    If you havin' skyrim problems I feel bad for you son.. I dodged 99 arrows but my knee took one.

    VENI, VIDI, NATES CALCE CONCIDI

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    Member Member Efrem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    Governemnt is for sheep, only when we throw off represenion can we thrive in science and the arts.
    Viva La Rasa!!!

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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimBob
    2) Explain to me how a Social Democrat government (or any government) would say its okay to support anarchists? I mean we are their greatest enemy, we want to end them.
    Neither parties are illegal, yet fascist and nazi parties are.

    Why do you hate Freedom?
    The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.

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    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    To answer your question - yes, spreading nazi-propaganda and glorification of the Third Reich is indeed not allowed here in Germany.
    BTW, fascist parties in general are not banned. Political parties whose goal is the destruction of the democratic society have been banned (and that happened to right-wing and left-wing extremist political parties in the past)


    So if you come here I would strongly suggest to leave any swastika-badges at home.

    Personally, I think that our country will survive should some "tourists" decide not to visit based on the ban of nazi-glorification...

  11. #11

    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    I fear you'll be disappointed over there Caps.. the fascists are really kind of pathetic in Europe. Dont get your hopes up for any discussion of power politics or ideology. Theyre all racists- and thats as deep as it gets. Hitler is probably turning in his grave..

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    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    Freedom of speech or religion is not guaranteed by (constitutional) law in (most of) Europe. That's why we can ban parties that seek the destruction of society, can ban neo-nazi propaganda and can make life very hard for scientologists.

    For God's sake, don't start talking to a German about the glory of the Third Reich, people don't like talking about that.
    Yes, Iraq is peaceful. Go to sleep now. - Adrian II

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    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by doc_bean
    Freedom of speech or religion is not guaranteed by (constitutional) law in (most of) Europe. That's why we can ban parties that seek the destruction of society, can ban neo-nazi propaganda and can make life very hard for scientologists.
    It's more practical to stop insurgents before everyone know who they are, hence some of the limitations in freedom of speech.....

  14. #14

    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    I fear you'll be disappointed over there Caps.. the fascists are really kind of pathetic in Europe. Dont get your hopes up for any discussion of power politics or ideology. Theyre all racists- and thats as deep as it gets. Hitler is probably turning in his grave..
    oh the decline of modern standards , poor old Hitler would be so dissapointed
    Lets get back to some real deep rooted fascism with power politics .

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    Time Lord Member The_Doctor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    If you go to Germany:

    DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE WAR

    Seriously, my nan is German and in my home we do not watch WW2 or even WW1 history programs because she will start moaning about it. They we get the same stories again and again.

    There is "evil" Jews trying to pay with dresses instead of money. The near death experience during an air raid. The waving an RAF pilot by mistake. Getting stuck in barbed wire during an air raid. Shouting at German troops that where retreating though the town she lived in. And finally showing American troops where some supplies where hidden.

    @Kaiser, why are you called Kaiser and have WW2 stuff, it does not make sense.

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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    What's in his signature long predates WWII, it's an Iron Cross, no more indicative of WWII in particular than a Victoria's cross.

    That being said, Kaiser, honestly, the Germans suffered under the Nazi party more than anyone. Do you really find it surprising that they have taken steps to see to it that they never gain a foothold there again? Regardless of how repugnant you or I find Stalinism, the fact that it is not explicitly banned IS NOT a reason for advocating that modern Germany should expose itself to Nazi ideology more. You know, sometimes, you really walk a fine line my friend...
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

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    Time Lord Member The_Doctor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    What's in his signature long predates WWII, it's an Iron Cross, no more indicative of WWII in particular than a Victoria's cross.
    I know that, I mean the Panzers (ok, so Germany did have tanks at the end of WW1) and D-day stuff.

  18. #18
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    How old is your nan, Martinus?
    Neither me, nor my parents(my father is dutch, born in 1945, just after the war) have a problem talking about the war. I don´t know about my grandma, never talked to her about it, but my mum knew some stories from her. In school we talked about WW2 a lot, they really want to make sure it won´t happen again.
    If I for one, watch a film about WW2, I have no problem seeing the Nazis lose, i just can´t identify myself with them.
    The BPjM, the guys who made this song illegal, are usually in the news for censoring brutal games so they can´t be displayed and sold publicly(you need to show your ID-card).
    From reading their reasons, I´d say this guy is simply a Nazi, the extracts they show are glorifying Hitler, so 'I don´t really see a problem.

    BTW: If you like swastikas, go to India, preferably visit something religious, from what I know, they represent the wheel of life there and are a common religious symbol, Hitler just copied them(seen a lot of them in a documentary lately).


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

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    Time Lord Member The_Doctor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    How old is your nan, Martinus?

    She is 86. She is from North Rhine-Westphalia, which I assume is the same place you are from.

    When she sees something about WW2, she says stuff like "why do they always bring it up?", "Why do they keep going on about it?". She also hates Churchill for some reason.

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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    Hmm, I´d guess the main difference is that she lived during the war, while I am just a 19-year old who never experienced a war so far.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Clegane
    To answer your question - yes, spreading nazi-propaganda and glorification of the Third Reich is indeed not allowed here in Germany.
    BTW, fascist parties in general are not banned. Political parties whose goal is the destruction of the democratic society have been banned (and that happened to right-wing and left-wing extremist political parties in the past)


    So if you come here I would strongly suggest to leave any swastika-badges at home.

    Personally, I think that our country will survive should some "tourists" decide not to visit based on the ban of nazi-glorification...
    Ok, that clears it up a lot. Thanks Ser.
    I wasn't saying that because I'm a nazi, being as I'm not a nazi, just an extreme right wing fascist who beleives that the government should do what is best for the people, even if it is not the will of the people. But, I do get called a nazi quite alot, so yeah, I was just really confused. Because, the banning of political parties is the same thing that happenened 70 years ago, and I was just thinking that history would repeat itself. At least it's not just against right-wingers.
    'sides I'm more of a Second Reichist myself (hence the name KAISER).
    BTW the Iron Cross was instituted in 1813.

    Why do you hate Freedom?
    The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.

  22. #22
    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    Oh btw i dont want this to turn into a debate on German law and if its good or not, I just needed some help grasping it. It seemed kind of freaky to me. So yeah, the point of the thread has been accomplished.
    BTW I wont get in trouble for reading von Clauschwitz (sp) or Guderian or Neitchze over there will I?

    Why do you hate Freedom?
    The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    "why do they always bring it up?", "Why do they keep going on about it?".
    People who have been through shit don't want to listen to people who havn't been through it talking about what it was really like because they don't have a clue what it was like , and those that know what it was like are trying to bury it at the back of their minds , ignore the nightmares and try and return to normality .
    Its that simple .
    She also hates Churchill for some reason.
    Now that sounds like my wifes Grandmother , but she went so far as to throw Winston out of the house and exclude him from any future social gatherings because he was "a drunken ass" or was it arse ? It is so hard to tell with these English(though she is Manx) accents

  24. #24

    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    I wasn't saying that because I'm a nazi, being as I'm not a nazi, just an extreme right wing fascist who beleives that the government should do what is best for the people, even if it is not the will of the people. But, I do get called a nazi quite alot, so yeah, I was just really confused
    yeah but no but what if but and then but I am not but I am but not really but really I am but that doesn't matter 'cos I heard that shelly is a slag anyway .
    So whats it going to be Capo ? Do you agree with the government being completely unrepresentative of the people that it governs ?
    Bloody hell , they are locking chauffeurs up in Guantanamo because they may have strange ideas , yet you are walking free

  25. #25
    probably bored Member BDC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
    Oh btw i dont want this to turn into a debate on German law and if its good or not, I just needed some help grasping it. It seemed kind of freaky to me. So yeah, the point of the thread has been accomplished.
    BTW I wont get in trouble for reading von Clauschwitz (sp) or Guderian or Neitchze over there will I?
    Why do you need help grasping it? It's exactly the type of law you claim you want. It protects the people, even if it annoys some of them (like you).

    It's ironic you claim to want the state to protect the people above their rights, then moan when you realise you might not be able to exercise your rights.

  26. #26
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
    BTW I wont get in trouble for reading von Clauschwitz (sp) or Guderian or Neitchze over there will I?
    Well, I don´t know Clausewitz, but I know that some clanmates with more historical knowledge got a bit upset when somebody else had "Clausewitz" as a nickname.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  27. #27

    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    Why do you need help grasping it? It's exactly the type of law you claim you want. It protects the people, even if it annoys some of them (like you).

    It's ironic you claim to want the state to protect the people above their rights, then moan when you realise you might not be able to exercise your rights.
    He most likely doesnt see the law as helping the people.

  28. #28
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by BDC
    Why do you need help grasping it? It's exactly the type of law you claim you want. It protects the people, even if it annoys some of them (like you).
    This sounds so negative, tell me about any law that doesn´t annoy some of the people.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  29. #29
    Time Lord Member The_Doctor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    About the Iron Cross, look at the symbol of my local council (Sefton)



    Maybe you could have that instead.
    Last edited by The_Doctor; 06-19-2005 at 22:44.

  30. #30
    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone explain German Law to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar
    Well, I don´t know Clausewitz, but I know that some clanmates with more historical knowledge got a bit upset when somebody else had "Clausewitz" as a nickname.
    Napoleonic Prussian Commander, wrote Of War

    Why do you hate Freedom?
    The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.

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