Liberty's revenge in the USA?

[Al Khalifah]

Monitoring debate groups that talk about how we should have world peace ?

Let's hope they don't read the org then otherwise we're all doomed apart from PanzerJager.

[PanzerJaeger]

Sorry to keep going back to the pre-war Germany references, especially given the nationality of the person under-fire here. I don't like digging up this period from the past but I think this poem by Pastor Martin Niemöller is especially relevant for this quoute:

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

The poem isn't Nazi specific. If you tolerate unfair or extreme measures because they don't affect you, then don't be surprised when one day extreme measures are introduced that do affect you and nobody stands up for you.

Youve made my point for me. The patriot act hasnt "come for" anybody.

Its funny to see certain people so opposed to the patriot act, after not making a sound during the Reno dictatorship.

[_Martyr_]

Reno, Reno... That was either 1993 or 1996 was it not. Either way I was either 7 or 10 years old at the time. Forgive me for not being more vocal!

Anyway, didnt the ACLU successfully battle some of its implementation in court? Seems pretty consistant to me, not just against something Bush-backed.

[PanzerJaeger]

Im talking about Janet Reno and the true infringement of rights during the Clinton administration.

If you really want an example of the government bursting into a place and shooting it up - look at Waco.

[_Martyr_]

Ok, I thought you were talking about the Communications Decency Act or whatever it was called... I know well who Reno was, I just assumed you were reffering to a specific Act, not the period of her office in general.

And again, should I have been more vocal as 5 - 10 year old about the civil liberty encroachments in another country?? Surely I can only protest and speak against what is happening in my time? And wasnt the ACLU up in arms about this stuff?

[Al Khalifah]

The patriot act hasnt "come for" anybody.

On the contrary. Many people have been detained on grounds made lawful under the Patriot Act.

[bmolsson]

Im talking about Janet Reno and the true infringement of rights during the Clinton administration.

So that is your argument for Patriot Act ??? Interesting....