America's irreplaceable ally

**Beirut** · 06-19-2005, 12:02

Hmmm, I could have been mistaken.

Seems he might have said "We control America" as opposed to "We the Jewish people control America."

I regret my possible error and say that I feel much better about him now. I feel like giving him a big hug to celebrate his humanitarianism. Really-really.

Mind you, given Sharon's history of directly participating in the killing of women and children, I have to admit to not feeling that bad about painting an ever so slightly skewed portrait of him.

**Don Corleone** · 06-19-2005, 13:18

There's no suggestion, from any independent verification, that he said any such thing: that Israel controls America or that he personally controls America. Beirut, one of these days you're going to have to learn that while hyperbole can be a useful tool in particular situations, employing it into your coherent view makes your coherent view unpalatable and you lose fence sitters who might have agreed with you.

As far as America being Israel's bitch, well, yes, it is certainly a one-sided love affair. But what do they really have to offer? It would be nice if they didn't steal US state secrets we decided not to share with them, but as there's very few of our allies, Israel included, that we do not spy on, it would be a bit hypocritical to cry foul too loud.

What DOES anger me in these situations is when they attempt to dictate to us how to deal with American citizens caught collaborating. Johnathan Pollard committed multiple counts of treason. The fact that he did it to aid an ally and not an enemy is why he should be incarcerated for the rest of his natural life (as opposed to facing a firing squad). When Laura Bush went over there last month, and the ever so grateful Israeli's booed and protested her over Pollard, that DID make my blood boil. How we treat Pollard is none of their
F%#@&NG business

and it implies we have no right to sovereignty when they take their interest in Mr. Pollard to that level. Mrs. Bush should have promptly called her trip short and told Sharon "When you're ready to treat me like the first lady of the United States, I will consider returning". Shame on her and her husband for disrespecting the office by laying down and 'taking it with a smile'.

Also, as long as Israel continues to sell our weapons systems to China, they need to be placed under technology control. I don't think Singapore, Japan, South Korea or India are particularly pleased with this new development, or the United State's decision to turn a blind eye to it. Either Bush has decided that China is not a strategic threat, or Israel wields entirely too much power within this administration. There's no 3rd alternative on that one.

And this is from somebody who actually supports Israel as one of our closest allies. I just wish they'd start acting like it...

**Tribesman** · 06-19-2005, 13:48

Mind you, given Sharon's history of directly participating in the killing of women and children, I have to admit to not feeling that bad about painting an ever so slightly skewed portrait of him.
That is an unproven allegation Beirut .

And it will remain unproven since the main witness (A Lebanese colonel who led the massacre oops security operation) who claimed to have evidence of Sharons complicity had the misfortune to walk into a bullet just before he was due at the war crimes tribunal .
Now , what were Ariels comments about that little assasination ?

Edit , my mistake , it was a bomb not a bullet .

**Beirut** · 06-20-2005, 01:30

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Mind you, given Sharon's history of directly participating in the killing of women and children, I have to admit to not feeling that bad about painting an ever so slightly skewed portrait of him.
That is an unproven allegation Beirut .

And it will remain unproven since the main witness (A Lebanese colonel who led the massacre oops security operation) who claimed to have evidence of Sharons complicity had the misfortune to walk into a bullet just before he was due at the war crimes tribunal .

We discussed this at great length in a previous thread. I'll see if I can find it.

Mind you, if we play Ol' Whatshisnames game and simply say that all my sources, up to and including the Jerusalem post and the major Israeli universities and their faculties, are all biased against Israel and the Jews and therefore irrelevant, then there's not much point in going over any of this again.

**Don Corleone** · 06-20-2005, 01:42

Come on now, Beiurt, no fair mixing arguments. Nerouin did in fact employ the tactics you're discussing here, but if I remember correctly, the only source you could ever produce for assessing that quote to Sharon was Fatah's newspaper, and sorry, I will call that a source of questionable objectivity. Yes, there were tons of quotes in the Jerusalem Post claiming Sharon was complicit with the slaughter in those camps up in Lebanon, and based on that, I find it hard to believe he didn't play some role, but that doesn't mean you automatically win every point you and Nerouin ever debated.

**Beirut** · 06-20-2005, 01:54

I agree that I may be mistaken for the quote I assigned to Sharon and I'll take my lumps for it. If I am wrong than I am wrong. What else can I say?

I did not say I won every argument with Ol' Whatshisname, I merely said that when the other side in a debate has nothing to say except "your sources are biased" no matter what the sources are, than a debate turns quickly into an elementary school argument with an intellectual depth of what kind of boots your mother wears.

If you will remember, Ol' Whathisname hit me with a question concerning something I wrote and for ten straight posts said nothing towards my responses "your sources are biased and therefore irrelevant". I think that gives me some small license to draw attention to that style of debating in order to avoid it again.

**Papewaio** · 06-20-2005, 01:46

All news sources are biased... its like a boat you need some ballast on the right and on the left... so all you need is two politically different news sources stating the same information and wham you have a fact sandwich.

Multigrain Rye Liberal spread with all organic butter on a base of Enriched White Conservative Bread smeared with a good helping of special interest (TM) oil based magarine. With just the facts meat inbetween.