Bad news from CA about Battles

[Old Celt]

This is what I'm attempting to DRIVE home here....

Some of these fanbois don't want to hear any negative talk regarding the game but at the same time, WarioWorld for Gameboy 13 years ago provided a more significant challenge.

CA took the franchise and dumbed it down to the point where my 5 YEAR OLD NEPHEW won 8 straight custom battles last night...EIGHT IN A ROW.

Tell me how that's justifiable?

Well, to be fair, they are making 5 year olds better than ever these days!!

[BrutalDictatorship]

Well, to be fair, they are making 5 year olds better than ever these days!!

troll post...

come on...that's not addressing the issue. I'm so sick of you CA fanbois ignoring real issues here.

Explain to me how a 5 year old with the mere knowledge of "horses run faster than men" (seriously, this is what he said before the point/click fest began) can run down 2800 ptolemaic empire with 1200 greeks??

Then tell me what a great job CA did on this game...

(this happened last night btw...and drove me up a wall...this is how it started, as described up top, and then he proceeded to win 7 more in a row)

[Old Celt]

I was just making a joke. If you check around a little you will quickly find that I am probably known as one of RTW's harshest critics. The battles are ridiculously easy. I'll make the point again that I did earlier: RTW is much easier to like once you realize it is NOT an in depth strategy game. I think the deep strategy elements were removed by design not accident. The vast majority of casual gamers will be satisfied with eye candy and funky units like Head Hurlers and Incendiary Pigs.

Sure, I'd like diplomacy to be meaningful to strategy, tactics be necessary to win battles, and the AI to be diabolical in its cunning, but I know I'm in a very tiny minority compared to those who are happy with a hack and slash fest.

[Vanya]

...Ok. Big changes but not radical changes have been made. I don't know the difference between big and radical, but it sounds promising for the people who feel the current gameplay is substantially flawed.

GAH!

"Radical is in the mind of the beholder."
-- Vanya

GAH!

[Simetrical]

You don't see 100 hate threads on games like Half Life 2 because valve made a game that they knew their fanbase wanted.

I'm sure there are at least that many on Steam, though.

-Simetrical

[Spino]

Sure, I'd like diplomacy to be meaningful to strategy, tactics be necessary to win battles, and the AI to be diabolical in its cunning, but I know I'm in a very tiny minority compared to those who are happy with a hack and slash fest.

I don't know about this. I've seen countless remarks by those I would consider to be 'average' gamers around the net in various forums and every time the subject of RTW comes up an alarming number of them complain that it is simply not challenging and that too much emphasis was placed on the eye candy while other aspects of the game suffered. When they do go into details these gamers consistently mention the inept AI and the unusually quick battles. When Warcraft flunkies bitch about a game being boring or not challenging enough it's time to pay attention. The overall impression I get is that many gamers (even those who profess to not be great fans of the series) expected RTW to be a sensible continuation of the TW series but realize that something was changed in order to appeal to a wider audience.

It's entirely possible that CA's move to satisfy the average gamer who prefers 'traditional RTS' style games could backfire in the long run. Sure, sales of Rome are great but who exactly is buying this game now? If we're talking about a case of 'once bitten, twice shy' for the core TW fans or self professed strategy gamers who think RTW is seriously lacking in certain areas then CA is left with the same kind of fickle masses who will one moment flock to a crappy movie like Independence Day and then treat an equally crappy movie like Pearl Harbor as if each ticket sported the plague! What happens if CA picks a less popular era to model in the next TW game and their design incorporates even more lowest common denominator inspired features and gameplay? Will the mob come and lay down their cash as quickly for the next TW title as they did for RTW?

I think CA overestimated the impact the less challenging, lowest common denominator approach would have on sales and underestimated the impact of RTW's eye candy has had on sales. I'm willing to bet Rome's impressive sales are overwhelming due to the fact that it looks unbelievably cool. Beyond that please tell me what exactly are the masses raving about with regard to RTW several months after its release?

[katank]

Game play indeed has seriously suffered. Why did they rush it so much? I must say that I couldn't wait to get my hands on this puppy before.

However, things like baggage trains and supply etc. were never finished though there and there are tons of little things here and there with Spain not able to train longshields etc. and having a British general.

Things like night battles were delayed until the expansion pack.

They really kept a good game by becoming phenomenal.

[BrutalDictatorship]

again...i truly believe that they can keep night battles, "baggage trains", and any new eye candy and stick it you know where.

I don't care WHAT they put in this game, I will bash it from now until they acknowledge AND fix the loadgame/siege bug.

It's unforgivable.

[sik1977]

again...i truly believe that they can keep night battles, "baggage trains", and any new eye candy and stick it you know where.

I don't care WHAT they put in this game, I will bash it from now until they acknowledge AND fix the loadgame/siege bug.

It's unforgivable.

Relax Brutal, read my post in the other thread where you posted regarding the save/load issue. I can understand your disappointment, but it won't help to get high blood pressure due to it.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=49509

[BrutalDictatorship]

stop ....

I understand you agree with me...and nobody, especially me, is getting high blood pressure over it...

I'm just baffled by the communities ignorance to the fact that NOTHING that CA implements at this point means anything until the load game siege bug is fixed.

Let's say you buy a car, and the company keeps adding things to it for you for a very small fee...xband radio, new alarm system, better A/C system, a better sounding horn, a TV inside of it...

what does ANY of it matter if the car stalls every 2 miles?

[KSEG]

again...i truly believe that they can keep night battles, "baggage trains", and any new eye candy and stick it you know where.

I don't care WHAT they put in this game, I will bash it from now until they acknowledge AND fix the loadgame/siege bug.

It's unforgivable.

What is loadgame/siege bug?

[BrutalDictatorship]

What is loadgame/siege bug?

omg....

yes, no offense (honeslty none intended) but you are the kind of gamer that CA makes a fortune off of.

I don't think I need to go into this again, will someone please explain to him what this bug is since it's been hashed over and over for almost 6 months now?

[sik1977]

What is loadgame/siege bug?

I hope you are just trying to tease Brutal, maybe give him more high blood pressure with that kinda question. Otherwise, if you seriously do not know, consider it a blessing and turn away right now, never to return so you may not know the ugly truth which is the save/load bug.

You can ofcourse go here and read all about it.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=45860

All the tests, graphs the works. Also, CA guys, thanks a bunch for all the feedback. Please do also comment on the save/load issue if possible, as it truly is pivotal.

[KSEG]

omg....

yes, no offense (honeslty none intended) but you are the kind of gamer that CA makes a fortune off of.

I don't think I need to go into this again, will someone please explain to him what this bug is since it's been hashed over and over for almost 6 months now?

Actually, I noticed this problem.
I occasionary realised that the AI seemed to break the seige every time I quick loaded, though I believed it was just a coincidence.
I just didn't understand the name "loadgame/siege bug"

[BrutalDictatorship]

Actually, I know this problem.
I occasionary realised that the AI seemed to break the seige every time I loaded and end the turn.
I just didn't understand the name "loadgame/siege bug"

yes, in laman's terms you understand it correctly....

it's the single biggest issue people have with the game...it is a "gamebreaker" in that it results in a cakewalk campaign every single time.

Nobody other than your own faction expands aggressively...

CA claims this is a feature, not a bug.

What's the feature's purpose?

[Oaty]

physchological evaluation? I hate to tell you but it's time to let go. What's done is done. When I'm mad or get mad I forget about it by the next day. Games I don't like go into a dust collection bin.

[Quietus]

I'm been done complaining a long time ago.

Basically, just let CA do their thing. Let competition take its course.

There's really no mandate nor an obligation for CA to follow what core followers want.

For example, for me, Mount & Blade has already eclipsed STW as my favorite game ever - at beta stage 0.632 no less.

Be a little fatalistic.

[Captain Fishpants]

troll post...

come on...that's not addressing the issue. I'm so sick of you CA fanbois ignoring real issues here.

I really must leap to Old Celt's defence here - and that's not something I bet he ever thought he'd see from a CA staffer! - but he's hardly been a CA fan boy, unless Mr Dictatorship is using a Newspeak dictionary.

Kudos to Old Celt for maintaining his hostility.

We'll have to see if he can keep it up once BI has, like Elvis, left the building.

[Colovion]

I must say, this thread brings back memories.

< 3

[Duke John]

Captain Fishpants, while I am sure that there will always be people who will dislike BI, it is good to see that you are proud about what you achieved with it.


Now we only need to wait what the poor buggers who are willing to pay and test it for us have to say about it...


Edit: I guess CA is done with BI, seeing the current invasion of CA employees in the forum. Cheers, what is next?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

I really must leap to Old Celt's defence here - and that's not something I bet he ever thought he'd see from a CA staffer! - but he's hardly been a CA fan boy, unless Mr Dictatorship is using a Newspeak dictionary.

Kudos to Old Celt for maintaining his hostility.

We'll have to see if he can keep it up once BI has, like Elvis, left the building.

Yes, we had a good old guffaw at that one.

*assumes non hostile tone*

Say.... haven't you got a statement to make, or haranguing of policy makers on the subject of same?

[HarunTaiwan]

Old Celt was a fan boy...and then he switched to the dark side.

In any case, all you CA guys still deserve your beers tonight - I know it's hard to develop products. Just make sure to keep bringing up improved game play and AI in meetings.

Maybe you can show management David Wong's essay from Pointless Waste of Time.

(BTW, the level of hostility is mainly because you guys are coming so close on many levels...and then there were some *ahem* CS problems)

[Productivity]

We'll have to see if he can keep it up once BI has, like Elvis, left the building.

You guys do realise you have to sell it to us this time, and not just expect that we'll take it up on blind faith like we have done previously...

We did that and got R:TW.

Maybe a bit of information, a serious consultative process and more general transparency would help. All of these half answers, generalities etc. are doing nothing other than making me more worrisome about the product.

[PseRamesses]

Well, I finally did it, RTW is shelfed. Starting playing STW last night - wow! I got smacked twice badly in the first couple of turns. Drool.... how nice to see the AI hold formation, not engage suicide charges, not fleeing to my side of the bridge when routing and vigorusly defending a hill and never get lured of it.
I seriously doubt if I´ll by BI, not after the statments I´ve read here - I might if RTR, EB or another monster mod converts to it. It makes me sad when I ask the CA dev for an explanation how the battlefield AI could revert in evolution through the series but he didn´t even answer. That´s the kind of brushoff you get for devoting yourself to this game for 5 years, playing almost every spare time you got. I´m seriously looking for another game to fullfill my needs in the future.
Talking about future games, any recommendations? M&B looks nice. CIV IV is always cool but it feels a bit kiddish don´t you think?

[Puzz3D]

We'll it's true even now to some extent.
Usually in my test battles, pikemen wins and cataps rout (with no big casualties).

Go online with a buddy and host the flat map using large unit size. You take 4 silver shield pikemen (121 men each) and set them in a line 8 men deep. Have your friend take 4 cataphracts (54 men each) set in a line no wider than the pike line and charge using the secondary weapon having each cav unit target the pike unit opposite it. The cataphracts will win decisively.

[KSEG]

Well, I finally did it, RTW is shelfed. Starting playing STW last night - wow! I got smacked twice badly in the first couple of turns. Drool.... how nice to see the AI hold formation, not engage suicide charges, not fleeing to my side of the bridge when routing and vigorusly defending a hill and never get lured of it.
I seriously doubt if I´ll by BI, not after the statments I´ve read here - I might if RTR, EB or another monster mod converts to it. It makes me sad when I ask the CA dev for an explanation how the battlefield AI could revert in evolution through the series but he didn´t even answer. That´s the kind of brushoff you get for devoting yourself to this game for 5 years, playing almost every spare time you got. I´m seriously looking for another game to fullfill my needs in the future.
Talking about future games, any recommendations? M&B looks nice. CIV IV is always cool but it feels a bit kiddish don´t you think?

No offense, but why are posting in this forum?
If don't like RTW so much, why are you still here?

[Old Celt]

"I really must leap to Old Celt's defence here - and that's not something I bet he ever thought he'd see from a CA staffer! - but he's hardly been a CA fan boy, unless Mr Dictatorship is using a Newspeak dictionary.

Kudos to Old Celt for maintaining his hostility.

We'll have to see if he can keep it up once BI has, like Elvis, left the building." - Captain Fishpants

@Captain Fishpants: I do thank you and want to express my admiration for your personal conduct. My issue is with CA policy, and certainly none of you developers (whom I actually consider brothers in arms). It is very good to see you posting here, and proves we can discuss and have a little fun without personal conflict.

It's easy for people to read me as "hostile" with regard to CA, but as I explained to killemall once: I'm just outspoken and never shy. I don't seek CA's punishment or destruction, just a remedy to my problem. I do, trust me, really DO respect your work and all the advances you have made. I think the responses given by others to questions from fans got things tangled up in a way that never would have happened if we could have just sat down together over a beer (or 2) and just talked about it as we would any friend.

I wish you the best of luck with BI. Please understand that I cannot buy it because of my principles unless a cost free patch to address save / load is made available. If you do that, I will be oh so happy to cross back over from... the dark side.

[NihilisticCow]

Old Celt - The FAQ at the .com does have this (recently added) answer...

Q. What's the latest regarding the load/save/siege issue.

A. Much I want to say this is now sorted and carved in stone, I can't. Please remember that expansion pack is in development and there is still much going on at the moment that I can't talk about for various reasons. I am prepared to say that it is certainly our intention to address the load/save issue in the expansion pack. "And what about a patch?" I hear you ask. Again I can't say this is set in stone but we hope to bring out a patch at roughly the same time as the expansion pack (in reality it will probably be few weeks later).
That's the state of play at the moment. When I know more, I'll make sure that you know more.

I'm being optimistic....

[Old Celt]

Old Celt - The FAQ at the .com does have this (recently added) answer...



I'm being optimistic....

I take that as a very positive development. If/when there is confirmation of the timing of this, we just might have an acceptable resolution to the problem. And if we do get a resolution, I'll be grateful.

[sik1977]

Old Celt - The FAQ at the .com does have this (recently added) answer...



I'm being optimistic....

This is surely the most positive news I have heard in months.