Arrgh - Times like these I Dislike the AI

[magnum]

Decided to try something different. Played the Brutii, but I modded the desc_strat file to give me an assassin from the start. I sent the assassin off to his death to start the civil war and took all my troops and generals to another land... North Africa. Kydonia, and the 3 provinces between Carthage and Egypt to be a bit more specific. I then ceded my starting provinces to the Greeks to try and give them a hand and allied with them. Good thing I did as that alliance and the trade it brought kept me alive over 70 years as Carthage and Egypt attack me.

During that time Carthage had kicked the Scripii out of Sicily and kicked Numidia's tail in the western part of North Africa. Egypt stalled fighting me and the Seleucids. Unfortunately for the Seleucids, Pontus wiped them out and took over Asia Minor. In Greece, the Macedonians took over all of it and then drove northward taking out Dacia, Thrace, and Scythia. Hands down they were the world power. The other Roman factions never got off the ground as they were to busy making sure the other roman factions didn't stab them in the back. Britania and Spain split Gaul in half between them (after Britainia and Macedonia finally eliminated Germania.) Over all it was looking like it would be an exciting campaign.

Well, 204BC and I figured it was time to start moving. Figured that the Marius Reforms weren't going to happen, at least not anytime soon. So I built and army of Principles, Archers, and Cavalry, topped it off with my best general, and went back to the homeland. Figured I'd hit Julii's western starting city (can't remember name.) Had a nasty battle of 1200 Brutii vs 1500 Julii that I won and took the city. Now comes the part that made me exit the game in disgust...

Greece, which had been my ally since the second turn. Who I had given two excelent territories to. Who I had assisted in defending themselves on more than one occassion. Who had slowly lost all they had till they only had 3 territories left even though in Italy they had 6 full stacks of armies facing almost NOTHING from the other roman factions. Who had been at war with the other roman factions for 70 years but yet never attacked them. As soon as I took the one city, Greece flew by 2 undefended enemy cities, 4 enemy armies of about 600 men each, through 2 enemy territories, so they could attack their 70 year ally.

Greece, which hadn't put up a fight the entire 70 years against their hated enemies, finally decided it made sense to attack the only ally they had in the game. And its not so much that I would have minded the AI attacking me as it 'sees me as the most dangerous.' I probably am compared to the other AI factions. Its that for 70 years it did nothing with those armies at all. Never once did it attack and enemy army. Never once did it attack an enemy city. It simply defended if and only if the enemy attack the army stack. Heck it never even sent an army stack to relieve cities under siege by an enemy. But as soon as it has a path to me, it attacks. If it has what it takes to attack, it should have been attacking long before then. That level of campaign AI is just frustrating.

Such good potential, just some serious flaws that truly hurt the game in the long run...

[lars573]

$5 bucks says Greece and the Julii had an alliance going for the 30 seconds when you decided to attack. Also the AI hates it when you try to encircle them. They and can't and won't stand for it. When i say encircle I mean you were to the south of them and then out of the blue you go and try to establish yourself north of them.

[matches88]

oh, that's just the dynamic ai re-evaluating you as a threat! it's binary you know, it can remember the last 0 and 1 turns. :)

anyway, back on planet earth... are you playing vanilla? sounds like there is lots of expansion going on, esp by 204BC.

[Mongoose]

Welcome to the "This AI SUCKS!" club...heres your hat and badge...




EDIT:

Could you join the AJC while your at it?

[Lancome]

Same happen to me(Greece). I've been in a great alliance w/ Egypt for over 51 years. we helped each other taking down Pontus and the selucids, then we attacked the Scipii in North africa. But once I wiped out the Scipii they decided to stabb me on the back and Take Cyprus, Crete, and Rhodes away from me. So far I can't hit them because Im in various Campaigns against Scythia, Dicia, Julii, Thrace, and Numedia (some how they made it). Dunno maybe I'll bribe their troops or something.

[antisocialmunky]

It sucks when the enemy goes Skynet on you don't it? One wonders why the hell they didn't simple add a variable that stores a 'relationship' value so it wouldn't Skynet your butt when you've been nice to it.

I mean... old dos games from 1995 like freaking Master of Orion 2 even had it. I mean if they did, it would be abused so much, but it'd be nice to see a diplomacy engine in a STRATEGY game whether diplomacy is measured in bodycount or trade agreements.

[katank]

True. I think that they should both respect body count which you rack up at their expense as well as favors that you give them.

This way, long time allies only stab when it gives nice chance for winning the game and beaten foes will take the life line of protectorate.

[Grifman]

I find it funny when we condemn the AI for screwing us, but we have no qualms about screwing the AI when it suits us. What's good for the goose is good for the gander . . .

[Mongoose]

Err...many people are ranting about the AI being easy to beat...read afew more posts...

The AI did screw him, but not half as bad as it screwd it self.

[magnum]

The fact that the AI attacked me isn't what really bothered me. Heck, I probably would have attacked it after I had finished off the rest of the romans. It was the fact that it had sat there with hugh armies at war with an enemy that was pretty much depleted and never took a city or even tried to. Yet as soon as it had a land route to me, it scraped together every unit it had, about 60 of them, and marched through enemy territory, past 1 completely undefended enemy city and 2 lightly defended cities, past 4 small enemy armies, simply to attack an almost full stack of top of the line troops belonging to their longtime ally. Thats what bothered me.

Bottom line is the Greeks should have owned all of Italy by then. The roman factions were divided and I was actively wearing them down so they wouldn't be a threat to anyone. Unfortunately the AI can sometime be, well, not to smart. It really seems to be unable to play the Greeks. I've almost never seen the AI move them offensivly. Perhaps its the large amount of phalanx troops that the Greeks have and the AI is seeing them as a defensive unit. With no offensive units it never sees itself as having what it takes to attack anyone regardless of the odds. Anyway, it was frustrating and pretty much ruined the campaign. I mean, after that it felt like I was beating up a 5 yr old mentally handicaped enemy. Hard to enjoy it, regardless of the odds.

[katank]

It's not the AI screwing the player. Rather, it's the AI screwing itself by hurling itself against a brick wall while already having enough enemies that they didn't make any progress against.

[antisocialmunky]

It would be nice to have an 'Allied Victory' option like certain games or 'World Peace' when you want to be the nice guy.

For Katank:

[katank]

I personally would like the game to turn out more like diplomacy.

Alliance is necessary to get somewhere. i.e. much harder to act like lone wolf.

However, stabbing is necessary to win though it's not taken lightly.

[antisocialmunky]

True indeed, even in Total War, there is more diplomacy than TW provides.

[katank]

Though the range of diplomatic options would just confuse the AI more.

[BrutalDictatorship]

How on earth could the AI be any more confused than it already is?

[antisocialmunky]

Opening up possibilities to the AI makes it dumber.

That's why Sengoku Jidai is using a basic tech tree to give the AI a fighting chance.

[BrutalDictatorship]

or CA could just release a 1.3 patch.

[katank]

Their contract is for 2 patches. Probly wouldn't get another one out.

[Mongoose]

Brutal was banned?

[antisocialmunky]

Holy Crap, he has as many warnings/ban as Mikeus and Clayton added together.

[matches88]

a good strike rate for only 60 posts!

Although currently the AI can't co-ordinate it's own forces. i like the idea too of more emphasis on alliances. By that I mean if 2 factions are in alliance but at war with you then they both attack in a co-ordinated fashion. Perhaps some sort of (trade?) incentives for holding long alliances and battle (morale?) rewards when attacking together.

[RomanCavalry]

I'd like to know what Brutal was banned for...

I looked over every post in the past week of his and see nothing inflammatory

[matches88]

LOL! And there I was trying to get back on topic :)