Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 32

Thread: Plain Stupid

  1. #1
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Nowhere...
    Posts
    11,757

    Default Plain Stupid

    hahahahahaha, routing units just stay together in a group whne routing, shouldnt they scatter. hahahahahaha

    We do not sow.

  2. #2
    Member Lancome's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Anywhere and everywhere *sigh* even NJ
    Posts
    118

    Cool Re: Plain Stupid

    yea, usually when I make units Rout they usually stick together when they head up north. Mehhh, Its just makes it easier for me to come w/ my cavalry and Chop them up.

  3. #3
    Guest BrutalDictatorship's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Hudson Valley, New York
    Posts
    59

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    many mods have tried to work on this...since the direction they run in (in a group) is hardcoded, modders have given routing units a little speed boost to try and give them a little bit better of a chance to get away. As it is now though, same thing...I just run about 99 percent of them down...


  4. #4
    Robot Unicorn Member Kekvit Irae's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    3,758

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    While this thread has been reported as spam, the surprisingly-non spam responses so far makes me think twice about closing this thread. Let's continue on that path and have a nice discussion about why routing units are still coherant, shall we?

  5. #5
    Chief Biscuit Monitor Member professorspatula's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Inside a shoe.
    Posts
    1,158

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    I'm sure in the previous TW games, that the routers don't stick so close together. Unit movement in RTW is so robotic and linear that the little men have to follow whoever has the flag above them, even if it means running back through the enemy to catch up with the other routers in the unit. The worst case of stupidity of the routers I've seen is after I'd modded terrain movement modifiers. The differences in speed on various terrains can make soldiers in the unit become separated from one another, and on one occasion, a routing unit had one soldier running well in advance of the rest of the unit which had the unit flag/banner over them. This soldier crossed the map boundary and was safe - except I then chased down the rest of his unit, making them turn around and run in the opposite direction. The poor chap who was already safe, then ran back onto the battlefield in an attempt to catch up with his unit. Naturally I rewarded his dedication to staying with his unit by driving my cavalry over his head.
    Improving the TW Series one step at a time:

    BI Extra Hordes & Unlocked Factions Mod: Available here.

  6. #6
    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    The Mountains.
    Posts
    3,868

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    I think they kept together pretty much as much in the previous games, though this is from memory so I am not sure it is correct.

    The turning back glitch and such was not there that I know of though.
    "A man's dying is more his survivor's affair than his own."
    C.S. Lewis

    "So many people tiptoe through life, so carefully, to arrive, safely, at death."
    Jermaine Evans

  7. #7
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    ゞ( ゚Д゚)ゞ
    Posts
    5,974

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    Ther is some logic in it... I mean... animals do it, they run in herds so they can't be singled out. Why can't routers?
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



    "Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009

  8. #8
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Cambridge, MA, USA
    Posts
    3,739

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    Also, they don't seem to head off the map edge ASAP but try to get back to where they entered the battle.

    I suppose it's to run back to save their baggage train?

    Many a gallant last ditch defense have been fought in defense of luggage.

  9. #9
    Member Lancome's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Anywhere and everywhere *sigh* even NJ
    Posts
    118

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    Yea but when the enemy is Group routing its just makes it easy for them to be wiped out.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Cambridge, MA, USA
    Posts
    3,739

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    True that. Still, defending baggage train would make group routing make sense.

    Pity, I think baggage trains were supposed to be implemented too but were unfinished.

  11. #11
    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    The Mountains.
    Posts
    3,868

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    Ya know Grant got his start defending baggage trains in the Mexican American War. Or if you prefer the Mexican, Filipino, Cuban, Spanish, American War. I don't think I forgot anybody...

    I bet they would have routed in a general group, scattering singles oneself out and does not give you other people to use as meat shields.
    "A man's dying is more his survivor's affair than his own."
    C.S. Lewis

    "So many people tiptoe through life, so carefully, to arrive, safely, at death."
    Jermaine Evans

  12. #12
    Member Member Sfwartir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Norvegia Superior
    Posts
    146

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    Might be wrong on this, but here we go:
    Isn't it part of human psyche to stick together when fleeing/routing? Maybe it's some prehistoric instinct kicking in, convincing one's mind that it's a lot safer to move in groups, even when fleeing? Also, at least trained military units should know that a group usually stands a better chance of surviving than a signle individual.
    Don't know for sure tho'
    Orgia bona hic in his septem diebus?
    //Any good orgies here this week?//

  13. #13
    Member Member CMcMahon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    160

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    If there's one thing that I wish units would do, it would be to have an unauthorized retreat; not a rout, but falling back while continuing to fight.

  14. #14
    Member Member FURRY_BOOTS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    SCOTLAND
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    at times like these, i sure wish we had the ability to capture enemies alive, like in medieval, i sure could do with the ransom money, or just to hear that satisfying splatter sound, ahhhh
    "I'll mace you good"-Homer Simpson

  15. #15
    Merkismathr of Birka Member PseRamesses's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Birka town in Svitjod. Realm of the Rus and the midnight sun.
    Posts
    1,939

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by Sfwartir
    Might be wrong on this, but here we go:
    Isn't it part of human psyche to stick together when fleeing/routing? Maybe it's some prehistoric instinct kicking in, convincing one's mind that it's a lot safer to move in groups, even when fleeing? Also, at least trained military units should know that a group usually stands a better chance of surviving than a signle individual.
    Don't know for sure tho'
    I for one would rather flee in a group than on my own so I do belive your conlusion is correct Sfwartir. I calculate that I´ve a better chance of getting out of that predicament alive.

  16. #16
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    ゞ( ゚Д゚)ゞ
    Posts
    5,974

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    I don't think it's a matter of actively using people as meat shields. I think it's more like 'I don't know what the hell to do, I guess I'll follow these guys!'
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



    "Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009

  17. #17
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Cambridge, MA, USA
    Posts
    3,739

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    Units do stick together. After all, infantry stands no chance against cavalry unless in tight formation.

    You should have routers periodically group tightly to try and resist lone pursuing units but suffer some serious combat penalties and then break when a large victorious enemy force comes close.

  18. #18
    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    The Mountains.
    Posts
    3,868

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    I agree with Katank, the units should attempt to defend themselves when attacked. It is just plain sad to see a group of Roman Praetorians run down by my fresh peltasts because I cannot spare hoplites or my hoplites are too tired to run them down.
    "A man's dying is more his survivor's affair than his own."
    C.S. Lewis

    "So many people tiptoe through life, so carefully, to arrive, safely, at death."
    Jermaine Evans

  19. #19
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Cambridge, MA, USA
    Posts
    3,739

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    They should be extra vulnerable to morale stuff and also have combat penalties.

    I remember description of a ruse in Napoleonic times where the cavalry pursuing would bring along infantry drums to convince the routing enemy infantry trying to form into squares to repel them that the victorious infantry were on hand to thrash them long after the infantry stopped pursuit.

  20. #20
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Nowhere...
    Posts
    11,757

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by BrutalDictatorship
    many mods have tried to work on this...since the direction they run in (in a group) is hardcoded, modders have given routing units a little speed boost to try and give them a little bit better of a chance to get away. As it is now though, same thing...I just run about 99 percent of them down...

    nasty, thats why heavy cavalry outruns my light cavalry when routing

    We do not sow.

  21. #21
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Nowhere...
    Posts
    11,757

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by antisocialmunky
    Ther is some logic in it... I mean... animals do it, they run in herds so they can't be singled out. Why can't routers?
    eh cuz they are not as stupid in real life that they would turn around to their unit while they were actually safe. people understand that scattering in a large pack will be the safest way. also a lot of people wouldnt protect the "herd" while animals will

    We do not sow.

  22. #22
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Nowhere...
    Posts
    11,757

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin
    I agree with Katank, the units should attempt to defend themselves when attacked. It is just plain sad to see a group of Roman Praetorians run down by my fresh peltasts because I cannot spare hoplites or my hoplites are too tired to run them down.
    yeah also the fighting to death thing doesnt always work, i saw 1000 units routing while trying to get past a triangle formation of armoured hoplites (i protected a bridge, the wrong way routing issue). while normal people would never do that.

    btw routing means running from the battlefield, and not obeying orders. it doesnt mean getting overun by cavalry, not turn around but keep on running and get eliminated. and definitly not in a group.

    We do not sow.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Cambridge, MA, USA
    Posts
    3,739

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    Now bridge battle routing is just stupid. Then again, rout phase is supposed to be major slaughter anyhow provided the winning side has cav. In battles, often 90+% of casualties occur after a side was broken.

  24. #24
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Nowhere...
    Posts
    11,757

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    true, but they still dont have to make it this easy. c'mon even an router with no brain wouldnt run into a line of spears. they are supposed to get away from it. a router will turn around and defend himself. but he will not get back to the battle or abey orders

    We do not sow.

  25. #25
    Deranged Rock Ape Member Zakor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Hell, Indiana (Please pardon the redundancy)
    Posts
    60

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    I've seen routing units stop routing before they leave the map, and come back ready to fight. It helps to be together at that stage.

  26. #26
    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    The Mountains.
    Posts
    3,868

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    I think routers would run in large groups, it just feels safer, and fight if attacked, perhaps most of the unit would even turn to fight. The main problem is the game sees the routers as one group of men, while they should be individuals running for thier lives in a group, some turn to fight if attacked while the rest run and a few scatter. This would be much more realistic as it would allow both herding, a bit of scattering and the rear of a routing unit to fight pursuers and the front to continue to run away.
    "A man's dying is more his survivor's affair than his own."
    C.S. Lewis

    "So many people tiptoe through life, so carefully, to arrive, safely, at death."
    Jermaine Evans

  27. #27
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Nowhere...
    Posts
    11,757

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    well that actually what i'm talking about. it makes no sense that the whole unit will come back, a few brave men ok, but the whole unit.

    We do not sow.

  28. #28
    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    The Mountains.
    Posts
    3,868

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    Well if encouraged or possibly threatened by officers and such they could probably get most of the unit to return to the fight. This is why the unit should be seen as a bunch of individuals, not a coherent whole. Course it is probably not going to happen for a long time because of hardware issues and likely coding difficulties, but it would be the best way to manage it IMO.
    "A man's dying is more his survivor's affair than his own."
    C.S. Lewis

    "So many people tiptoe through life, so carefully, to arrive, safely, at death."
    Jermaine Evans

  29. #29
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Nowhere...
    Posts
    11,757

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    that would be cool, than you maybe get real warbands with mixed weapons and looks, and maybe even physical looks.

    We do not sow.

  30. #30
    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    The Mountains.
    Posts
    3,868

    Default Re: Plain Stupid

    Exaclty, more individualized untis with realistic assortments of weaponry. Course to achieve this right now they would probably have to come up with a good 2D engine (not hard) and a good randomizer for the weapons and such. I highly doubt they woudl do that though, the 3D engine has probably gotten them many new players and I doubt they could manage it on most machines with a 3D engine.
    "A man's dying is more his survivor's affair than his own."
    C.S. Lewis

    "So many people tiptoe through life, so carefully, to arrive, safely, at death."
    Jermaine Evans

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO