Corruption Crisis

[MPolo_440]

I've reached 50BC as the julii, with 50 regions, minus Rome and any hostilities with the other Romans, when in the space of a turn my near 100k of cash disappeared. I checked my finances and found corruption had increased by tenfold (100k) in one turn and has remained since. Cities report that corruption is over 50% of income. I checked to see if I did something stupid like accidently moved the capital to some poor, far-flung corner but no. Most governors appear highly reliable and trained in the ludus magna. With me about to crush the Egyptians with great satisfaction and instead losing all chance of income in one turn, you can understand why I'm asking if anyone knows what has happened and if there is any remedy to it as the change appears to remain for the long-term.

[edyzmedieval]

Welcome to the forum!!!

Corruption is a big problem especially when you are starting to grow... Unfortunately, there's not much you can do as far as I know....

Maybe there are some experienced RTW guys who can help you....

[Dutch_guy]

make sure you spend all your money , you must keep your bank account below the 50K , if above then your governors will gain the corrupt trait - which is as you now know, very bad.
And make all of your governorns manage citys with at least an academy and put taxes at the high setting, then you have an increased chance of getting good taxing traits.

BTW ; Welcome to the org. !

[katank]

At 50k, your govs get corruption vice chance once a turn. At 100k, it's twice a turn. At 150k+, it's 3 times a turn.

This really gets out of hand. Best solution is to keep it below 50k. Try tributing some to a random AI faction to make them stronger, you guys less corrupt. This makes for a better fight in the endgame.

You can also bribe a lot to blow off wads of cash.

[Siris]

Yea, just about "all" of my Generals are "Corrupt", runs in the family I guess?...

But anyways, I dont mind it, if it gets too bad I'll assassinate them... well only to a certain extent I guess.

[Aesculapius]

May I modestly refer you to this link here, which might be of interest?

It won't explain how all that corruption suddenly appeared in one turn - are you sure it was as sudden as that? You must be very meticulous if you were tracking such things that closely.

But it will explain a bit about how corruption appears (very much as previous replies to this thread have given), and other training techniques to foster good traits and avoid bad traits in your governors. In particular, the Ludus Magna does nothing at all to your governors' traits, and generates only a minority of the ancillaries; so it's not as useful as I used to think.

With reference to the replies from Dutch guy and katank, it's important to note that 'Corruption' on the balance sheet is not the same as the character trait 'Corruption'. The two are linked, in that Governor Corruption reduces your 'law' bonus, which is the only way to offset Balance-sheet Corruption.
This post here, from this thread here, sums up Balance-sheet Corruption pretty well.

So the only way to reduce corruption on the balance sheet (other than optimising the location of your capital) is to encourage the development of Law-enforcing traits (and ancillaries) for your governors. These traits are: Authoritarian, Disciplinarian, Harsh Justice, Just, Good Administrator, Prim, Upright, Warlord, and the offices of Aedile and Praetor. The most efficient way of doing this would be (believe it or not) to encourage riots and rebellion in the cities in which you have governors - this has a high chance of developing the first three traits. A less drastic way, if your faction offers the option (unfortunately the Julii don't), is to build from the following groups of Temples:

Governor (Zeus) -> Authoritarian
One God (Zoroaster) -> Good Governor
Justice (Set, Esus and Baal) -> Harsh Justice and Just
Law (Horus, Saturn and Papay) -> Harsh Justice
Victory (Andraste, Nike) -> Warlord

For more detailed info, may I humbly refer you to this spreadsheet here?

Periodically some new thread appears on the forum debating whether it's good to have lots of money or little money in the bank - in case you missed it, here's one of the more recent ones. Personally I side with katank and Dutch guy in trying to keep your treasury below 50000 - I think it's one more way of adding a bit of challenge to the game; but others feel that having weak governors is also a way of adding challenge to the game, and that's a valid point.

Of course, there are lots of ways of improving your income other than by reducing corruption, so good luck with squashing those pesky Egyptians!

Regards


Aesculapius

[Wishazu]

I thought you could decrease corruption by creating buildings that improve law...

[katank]

@ Aesculapius, that's very informative. Awesome info.

It does seem strange that it would all suddenly happen in a turn.

There are certain points in which eventually the cons of having governors outweigh the benefits.

Consider just using manage all settlements and not have a governor.

[Aesculapius]

I thought you could decrease corruption by creating buildings that improve law...

True - I'd forgotten that. These are:

1. The Executioner's Square series (only available to Carthage, Egypt and Parthia),
2. Temples (at any level) of Governors, Justice, Law, Leadership or One God.
3. Temples (at Pantheon level) of Farming, Fertility, Forge, Fun, Hunting, Love, Naval or Victory.

The temple groups that do NOT give bonuses to Law at any level are Battle, Battleforge, Healing, Horse, Trade and Violence.

That's probably more detail than anyone really wanted, but there it is.

Regards


Aesculapius

[Garvanko]

Sometimes you can micro-manage a bit too much.Corruption is one of the problems I never deal with.. If you have a General with bad vices, keep him in the field.

[nameless]

Yeah, one time as the Scipii I was losing lots of money to corruption so I tore down most of my Neptune temples and built Saturn(Law and Happy) and the corruption went down and the people were happier.


Then I realized I could go in and mod the law temples to give a 20 (100%) law and happiness

By mistake I gave a 20 for a Health bonus too, was that fun....population growth was set to like maximum 20,000 to 60,000 in 2 turns.

[Muska Burnt]

At 50k, your govs get corruption vice chance once a turn. At 100k, it's twice a turn. At 150k+, it's 3 times a turn.

This really gets out of hand. Best solution is to keep it below 50k. Try tributing some to a random AI faction to make them stronger, you guys less corrupt. This makes for a better fight in the endgame.

You can also bribe a lot to blow off wads of cash.

seriouly dang since for my greek campaign i have one million denarii and no way to get rid of it but i sitll dont under stand corruption does that mean like theres a mafia or something

[pezhetairoi]

No, it just means your governors take alot of what the city earns for his own personal wallet instead of giving to you, the emperor. One million denarii in the treasury, eh? Well then, give tribute of 10k a turn to every surviving faction for 50 turns, and then bribe every army they have in the field, give a few provinces here and there to those factions, and I guarantee you'll run down your surplus in no time.

One million... I used to have that as the Brutii. If you've got one million, you can afford the corruption. No way you can run that down, even with cities all churning out units.

[IliaDN]

When I wasn't exp player in RTW , I played E/M campaigns , when it was Selucids campaign my cash was about 8 millions , but I didn't worried about corruption.

[Franconicus]

I never have money

[The Stranger]

when you have 1.4 billion you dont have to worry about anything. i'd recommend to track down those members and take them out of the cities. put all your taxes on normal if you can. this will keep you from gettin corrupt, cheapskate and the trait that people get that dont like to spend money.

[The Stranger]

At 50k, your govs get corruption vice chance once a turn. At 100k, it's twice a turn. At 150k+, it's 3 times a turn.

This really gets out of hand. Best solution is to keep it below 50k. Try tributing some to a random AI faction to make them stronger, you guys less corrupt. This makes for a better fight in the endgame.

You can also bribe a lot to blow off wads of cash.

you got to be kidding. so i'm having 1.4 billion. oh god that's like 25000 corrupt vices a turn. oh dear

[ToranagaSama]

Hello,

In my experience Corruption Can-Be-Controlled, by first having some relative understanding of how the Temple system works, including Baths, and Waterworks (or whatever its called; and, most especially, actively managing each individuals city's population--matching population growth to your present infrastructure.

A player needs to be pro-active from the very first turn, investing in Infrastructure that will allow for growth with the least corruption. Don't *wait* until you *need* a Temple, Bath, Water, etc.

Plan your Cities, not every city needs to be capable of Troop production. In those cities which are going to be Troop producers, then its these cities, and ONLY these cities that need a *relatively* large population to draw upon.

Non-troop producing cities need Little to Zero growth, or, sometmes Negative growth is helpful.

Growth of 4% or more is only necessary in your troop producing cities, and at *some* point evev 4% will be more than you need. Growth of 10-12% is growth that is too fast in *most* instances. Such rates s/b be only maintained when a specific population total is desired, and once such total is reached steps need to be taken to forestall immediate and future growth. Pulling Growth levels down to 4% or LESS (or even negative levels.

For example, Population Level A, is all that's necessary for efficient and easy troop production. Once A is reached you don't really *need* further growth EXCEPT to gain the buildings necessary for *Advanced* troop production, as well as other *Advanced* purposes.

Fortunately, in TW, the means to utlimate sucess is not reduced to a Race to Tech-Up. Accordingly, a *gradual* teching-up is all that's necessary. Consequently, a player can *plan-out* measured tech buildup. In most cases, upon reaching a certain Tech Level, it'll take awhile before you *need* to tech-up to the next Level.

So once reaching Level A by way of a 10-12% growth rate; that rate can be brought down to 4% (moderate ?), which in many cases will still be too fast. In which case, 1-2% is more desireable. In your *growing* cities, Population/Corruption MUST be watched EACH turn. First to ensure that both are at *expected* and controllable levels; and, Second, to take measures to maintain control.

Like I've said, if you manage your Population Growth pro-actively, then there WILL come a time when you want/need Zero and/or Negative growth (-1% or -2%). Of course, *some* of your population will be dying, but that's OK. Just make sure you have enough Town Watch to keep things under control, as well as, appropriate levels of Law and Order.

I, too, use to think Corruption and its effects were Uncontrollable, but since the Patch, and with Experimentaiton, as well as the Knowledge provided by the good folks of the Org, discovered that Corruption and its effects are VERY manageable.

To active thus, for some players it won't be **fun**, it requires a LOT of micro-management and Pro-Active building choices.

I presume previous posters have provided the necessary links that will explain the purpose and use of the appropriate buildings necessary for Corruption control, as well as the necessary techniques as you progress in the game.

Luck!