US Democratic program

[Kanamori]

To me it just seems their main point is 'We're not like those scary Christians in the Republican party'. Surely there must be more to them than that ?

Just barely. That is why they fail.

[PanzerJaeger]

It has occurred to me that while most people here either bash or support the US Republicans, no one really talks about what the Democrats' program is.

They dont have a coherent agenda or and organized party.

Take a look at their national leader, Howard Dean. All he can say is how bad republicans are and how much he hates them (his exact words), yet hes raised less than half of what the RNC has raised this year.

To me, it comes down to this: Mainstream Republicans feel good about giving their support/money to their party. Mainstream Democrats have to choose the lesser of two evils in their mind these days. When your party is the lesser of two evils to its main base, something is seriously wrong.

Not to mention the party is still suffering the massive shift that happened in the 60s. The republicans are still basking in the Reagan light, while the democrats are struggling with their identity. It wasnt too long ago they represented the far right, now they represent the very far left and many of the core are just waking up to that and arent sure if they like it.

Thats the most objective answer you'll get out of the likes of me.

[Red Harvest]

Has anything the democrats have offered even been considered by Dubya? Without any control over the house, senate or executive branch is there really any point? Hell, no! He doesn't listen to voices of dissent in his own party, and he sure as heck isn't listening to anyone else. He is the most divisive leader the country has had in this century. His administration has analysts canned who don't provide the conclusion that they know is expected of them. (And he nominates folks like Bolton who follow this very pattern too...)

Democrats actually have had an agenda of dealing with the budget problems (you know the ones they fixed before Dubya wrecked it again) for dealing with Social Security and Medicare issues. More importantly, they have had ideas about fixing the very broken medical/insurance system with its 13% annual inflation rate. Unfortunately, the right wingers start the "liberal, liberal, liberal, nyya, nyyya, nyyya, nyyy, nyyaa" and it degenerates from there. Bush actually borrowed quite a few issues to take as his own...but of course with some screwed up approach that won't work as its centerpiece.

Has Bush done anything that has really worked? I've yet to see it. Has he been even within 50% on any number he has projected? Again, I have yet to see it. There is the Midas touch, and then there is its opposite, the "merde" touch. Dubya has the latter.

What the democrats have lacked (post Clinton) is a strong charismatic moderate leader to unite the base and put forward a plan. The democrats have long had a rather diverse base. The Republicans have been regimented with a Borg like approach to govt where everyone is required to vote the party line. Personally, I have more respect for independent thought than blind obedience.

So what can they do at the moment? Resist the more inept appointments and proposals, and wait. Anything they propose is going to be warped into something that none of them would support. It's not like an admin that can fabricate WMD evidence to go to war is going to give any opposing view a fair hearing. Eventually the delirium of the country's conservative fever is going to break and folks will realize we have an economy adrift with no course set for the future, that we have a runaway Republican budget, we have runaway healthcare costs, an overstretched military that has been poorly supported by the administration, and a deficit that is growing by $500 billion or so each year. I hope that the fever breaks on its own, rather than from some new trauma.

I've always gotten a hearty laugh at watching conservatives huddle together, cult-like, reinforcing one anothers views.

[Don Corleone]

Out of a 26 line post replying to the idea that the Democrats don't have a message other than "Bush sucks", Red Harvest has chosen to spend 23 bashing Bush and the Republicans. In the other 3 lines, he alludes to a 'plan' to balance the budget, enhance Social Security and Medicare, yet offers not one detail. I have a plan to make $10million US a year by the time I'm 40. Just don't ask me for any details.

This, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with the Democratic party. They hate the opposition more than they like their own ideas.

[Red Harvest]

Out of a 26 line post replying to the idea that the Democrats don't have a message other than "Bush sucks", Red Harvest has chosen to spend 23 bashing Bush and the Republicans. In the other 3 lines, he alludes to a 'plan' to balance the budget, enhance Social Security and Medicare, yet offers not one detail. I have a plan to make $10million US a year by the time I'm 40. Just don't ask me for any details.

This, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with the Democratic party. They hate the opposition more than they like their own ideas.

What a misrepresentation, only a portion of that was directed at his failed policies. It's not "hatred" of the opposition. It is hatred of bad ideas and particularly ones that have failed. Plans have been offered from the Democrats, selective hearing is an issue... Does it do any good to put anything forward when nobody is listening. No.

I'm an independent by the way. I've never been that happy with what has been offered by either side. The best initiatives I've seen were: 1. Balancing the budget. 2. Doing something about healthcare cost and coverage. Clinton succeeded on #1, and got the healthcare industry concerned enough about #2 that it was in check for a few years. My suggestion is to go back to those two things first. Fix what Dubya broke. The problem is, Dubya used the irresponsible "free candy" approach of tax breaks to get elected.

If you want to continue with "my plan": 1. Balance the budget by reversing much of Dubya's tax cut. 2. Provide universal coverage or true availability, burden shared by all. 3. Greatly simplify medical/insurance rules to a nationwide system--cut out much of the overhead now built into the system. 4. I believe priming the pump in key sectors with incentives for future markets is the way to actually jump start the economy and keep our competitive technology edge 5. I believe in dismantling/restricting monopolies/barriers that inhibit overall growth (Microsoft and some of the extensions on pharmaceutical patents.). 6. Reform the governance of the U.S. financial markets--so that I can get a decent return on my investments. 7. Reform the way earnings are reported to provide a true picture of financial health, and reform how boards and execs report to shareholders--execs seem to be carrying away the lions share of my investment profits. 8. Stiffer penalties, easier prosecution (lower the burden of proof for the obvious gross misconduct), and tigher regulation to reduce fleecing of companies by execs. 9. A real energy policy, with investment for the future. 10. Revise tax code slightly to adjust interest taxes by subtracting out inflation for a "net" income--other measures to encourage saving, discourage over leveraged borrowing. 11. Take the draconian aspects out of DMCA--they are a drag on competitiveness. 12. Make medical pricing fair--no more billing based on who your insurer is. The current range of that is several hundred percent.

As I said, its not gonna matter until there is someone charismatic to present other plans, and have an audience to present it to.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Yhe democrats agenda is to create a new Vietnam generation. They hope by harping on how the war is wrong and how we are committing war crimes they will get the same boost from the younger generation as they did from Nam. It seems they are the party of Europe.

[The Black Ship]

Well, since Dubya's the only President this century, it's a safe bet he's both the most divisive and the most unifying presence.

[Red Harvest]

Well, since Dubya's the only President this century, it's a safe bet he's both the most divisive and the most unifying presence.

True, I should have said in the last 100 years...oh well.

[PanzerJaeger]

Has anything the democrats have offered even been considered by Dubya?

The question at hand is: What have they offered at all?

The last major democratic new initiative was Hillary's socialized healthcare system. That was shot down by public opinion, not the Republicans.

Besides that they havent done anything at all. Simply saying that they want to fix the budget, fix healthcare, ect. doesnt mean they have any real plans. (And dont get so full of yourself, Newt fixed the budget during the Clinton years.)

Take a look at Social Security. Ok, so the dems dont want privatized accounts - whats their solution? Deny theres even a problem! They act so righteous and scream about Bush leaving deficits to our children, yet they are leaving a much bigger problem with them.

[Red Harvest]

The last major democratic new initiative was Hillary's socialized healthcare system. That was shot down by public opinion, not the Republicans.

That and the balanced budget... both shot down by Republicans, one after Clinton was out of office.

And it is a lie that it was shot down by public opinion itself. There was a major redirect effort by the right wing, and they used "gays in the military" as their major distraction tool to sidetrack issues that actually mattered. And there was the use of "socialized healthcare" to label it. That's not what it was. It was striving for universal coverage. You have to hand it to the Republicans though, they are great at tagging derisive nicknames to anything from the Democrats.

I would embrace socialized healthcare compared to what I've seen and experienced in our own bloated mess (and some limited experience with socialized healthcare.) It is rapidly becoming unaffordable--no surprise since it carries a double digit inflation rate. Companies are trying to eliminate it altogether from benefits and have been for a number of years.

Even Frist recognizes that the problem is spinning out of control.

It is the height of hypocrisy that the Schiavo conservatives are so opposed to extending healthcare to the uninsured. I see healthcare as being like basic education--something that we as a nation should try to provide. It is part of *my* christian values.

The private accounts plan would be great if there was indication that the U.S. economy would be in good long term health...(rather than trading sideways) and if it wasn't so expensive to get started. Trouble is, U.S. markets can and do stay in ruts for extended periods of time. It is not something you can afford to do when already running a massive deficit, Dubya dipped into the till too much already. The other problem is that if not very well considered and regulated, most investors would get fleeced, leaving no retiriment funds for them. With the problems in both corporate governance/reporting and in mutual fund regulation, I don't see how this is going to be anything but an expensive disaster. Dubya is not a good planner (see post war Iraq and our growing casualty count), and his numbers don't ever work out. Better for Dubya to leave SS alone, rather than touch it. He lacks the basic math skills and honesty for the job.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

That and the balanced budget... both shot down by Republicans, one after Clinton was out of office.

Oh please. This is the bifggest lie probagated by the democratic maybe in its history. The balanced budget was proposed in the republicans contract with America. Clinton said it couldnt be done and in fact used up all his vetoes on the matter and was finally forced to sign it. When it worked the democrats took credit for it. You also left out welfare reform . Another of Clintons greatest achiements that was also passed over his objections.

It is the height of hypocrisy that the Schiavo conservatives are so opposed to extending healthcare to the uninsured.

What dose Schiavo have to do with health insurance? In reality there are very few uninsured people in the US certainly there arent any poor who dont have it. Its only people like me who work for themselves or make too much to get government assistance who dont have it. Or the young who dont see a need for it.

He lacks the basic math skills and honesty for the job.

I dont think hes doing the calculations so dont worry.

[Red Harvest]

What dose Schiavo have to do with health insurance? In reality there are very few uninsured people in the US certainly there arent any poor who dont have it. Its only people like me who work for themselves or make too much to get government assistance who dont have it. Or the young who dont see a need for it.

The contract with America fixed the budget deficit? Yeah...righhhhhhhhhhhhhttttttt.

With regards to healthcare, what country do you live in? You sure as heck don't live in the U.S. I grew up without health insurance, except when my dad was in the navy. The working poor often can't afford health insurance. I know many without it. Their numbers have grown tremendously under Dubya.

Heck, it takes a considerable bite out of my own budget and doesn't even cover that much. With a medical inflation rate that is 10% greater than inflation I'll run into a crunch in a few years. Plus, my family is healthy and it is mostly catastrophic coverage.

And good luck trying to find maternity coverage.

Schiavo has a lot to do with it, exposes the basic hypocrisy.

But here is the clincher: If you were correct, and the uninsured or underinsured were virtually non-existent, then it would cost almost nothing to have it. So deciding it shouldn't be made available doesn't make much sense. Try to squirm your way out of that one.

Quicky stat for you:

"In 2003, approximately 45 million Americans were without health insurance. That is roughly 15 percent of the population of the U.S. Ginsburg contends that the figure would be even higher if not for the recent expansion of Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program, both of which are government sponsored."

Now this was just the uninsured, not the underinsured.

[Xiahou]

I would embrace socialized healthcare compared to what I've seen and experienced in our own bloated mess (and some limited experience with socialized healthcare.) It is rapidly becoming unaffordable--no surprise since it carries a double digit inflation rate.

I agree that our healthcare is becoming a bloated mess- but I think that expecting further government control/funding to fix the problem a bit unreasonable. Sadly, I think its almost grown into a catch 22 situation. The federal government is causing healthcare to be ineffecient and overpriced, but its too overpriced to be able to deal with it without government interference.

I think maybe a step in the right direction would be to make people have a more vested interest in their own health. Such as allowing insurance companies to charge higher premiums to those that live unhealthy lifestyles- smokers, obese, ect.