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  1. #25
    Master of the Horse Senior Member Pindar's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a Jew

    Quote Originally Posted by bmolsson
    Maybe devotion, but it's not relevant to understand religion as a system.

    I think you've gotten confused on my basic position. I gave you a definition of religion. That definition did not include faith. Religion as a system is distinct from belief in that system. If someone allies themselves with a religious view, my position is that can only be meaningful if they actually believe in the religion they claim adherence to. Thus, a Christian is one who believes in Christianity (that Jesus is the Christ and savior of mankind), a Muslim is one who accepts the five Pillars of Islam (including the Shahada: there is no God, but Allah and Muhammad is His prophet), and a Jew is one who believes in the tenets of Judaism ( i.e. the Torah).


    The reality of today is far more secular than when the largest religions was developed. Inability to evolve is a clear sign of fundamentalism.
    Yes, the world is more secular, but this doesn't mean religion is secular. They are mutually exclusive positions. Note the way the word was defined when it first appeared in English in 1846: Secularism "doctrine that morality should be based on the well-being of man in the present life, without regard to religious belief or a hereafter".


    Empirical data shows that you are wrong. The majority of muslims today are not muslims due to devotion, but due to birth and affiliation.
    So, you are saying there is a study where the world's Muslim community stated they didn't actually believe in Islam, but accepted the status "Muslim" because it was assigned them by their state? What is this study? Assuming such actually exists, Why would you consider this compelling? If a state passed a bill where everyone's favorite color was declared to be green and such was the case from birth does that mean everyone sees green as their favorite color? The point is that regardless of any legal action, it cannot reach to the heart of man. There are certain categories and labels that can only be applied by the subject.
    Last edited by Pindar; 06-29-2005 at 18:41.

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