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  1. #11
    Dragonslayer Emeritus Senior Member Sigurd's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a Jew

    I take your word for it regarding the proselytes.
    The more I read about it the more I suspect that Judaism have a Christian core.
    The different Jewish directions(?) would probably disagree.
    There is goodwill towards humanity and I have stumbled over many quotes from famous rabbis praising the proselytes as the choice people of God. They are more worth to Him because they are more righteous and not as stiff-necked(?) as the generations of a troublesome people.

    I take it that it is as you suggest a question of religion or should be, but the reality and practice suggest that it is all about race or heritage.
    I am sitting here thinking of differences in the actual practice of a religion, and the intended practice described through intricate commandments, creeds and articles of the same(religion).
    Possibly there were restrictions because of growth pains.
    I believe even in your faith which is based on chosen/voluntary/unpaid leadership, there would be problems when the growth is too high.
    There is a maturation process that has to elapse before people understand the deeper meanings and the way things work. I suspect that even life-long members have problems with the core principles and would become the Pharisees and Sadducees of the New Testament era*.

    I have talked to a couple of the "fallen" LDS members even on this board and they speak of other people that is exalting themselves and sit on their high horses thinking they are better than others, like the Jews by birth looks down on the Jews by choice. They frown upon the new proselytes or converts that might not have a shirt and tie when they come to the chapel to partake of the sacraments or other small quirks they might have.
    To one who beholds this from the outside this is a little confusing.
    There is definitely a difference in the practice of a religion and its intentions described in rules, creeds and articles.
    That is probably why they are chastised so much by prophets and religious leaders. Even Jesus himself had a go at the Jews of his time.


    *the third direction is not mentioned, could it be that Jesus and his followers where Essenes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Pindar
    Regarding Modern Jewry: do you consider an Ethiopian Jew the same race as a Russian Jew?

    The word race is such a negative word but for the lack of a word that describes a people that keep strict adherence to maintaining blood relation by not intermingle with other peoples, I chose that word when I posted.
    Having said that, the twelve sons of Jacob must have married women of the gentile nations and I know some were Canaanites and some of the other people in the Palestinian area.
    Didn’t Joseph marry an Egyptian?
    I have also read, without remembering the exact details, that Jacob and his sons came to Egypt with a lot of men(grandsons) and that at least 55 of them were described as without wives. That is if all the women described, married one of their cousins.
    This means they must have taken either Egyptian wives or wives from other African nations possibly even Ethiopian women.
    Didn’t Moses of the tribe of Levi marry an Ethiopian princess?
    Is not the tribe of Ephraim considered fair in skin and hair? Did Joseph have other wives?
    It was after the exodus when they started to restrict the intermingling with other peoples. At that time the people of Israel – the 12 tribes could very likely have a diversity of ethnic looks and attributes.
    Correct me if I am wrong but was it not Solomon that broke the tradition by taking wives from diverse nations and introduced again fresh blood into the Jewish people?

    After the first Diaspora, 10 of the tribes were lost into the north countries.
    (Hey, I could even be a descendant of one of them without knowing it; many of the peoples of Norway came from the east. I could be a blond descendant of Ephraim).
    The story of the Book of Mormon tells of migrating Jews (meaning people from the Kingdom of Judah) they were Manasseh and Ephraim were they not(refugees from the destruction of the North kingdom)? They traveled to America and settled there creating two powerful nations: the Lamanites and Nephites. They became two different ethnic groups were the first destroyed the latter. Some of the Native peoples of America could very well be descendants of the first?
    I do think a couple of the LDS prophets called them Jews (not the Indians but the Lamanite/Nephite nations).

    The Jews of Ethiopia and the Jews of Russia could be of different tribes with different ethnic attributes. Or they could be of the same tribe i.e. Judah but have different ancestral fathers/mothers.
    Last edited by Sigurd; 06-29-2005 at 15:25. Reason: grammar
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