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  1. #1
    Master of the Horse Senior Member Pindar's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a Jew

    Quote Originally Posted by bmolsson
    Belief in what ?
    Belief in the tenets of the faith. Religion is a belief system: absent the belief one cannot be considered a part of the system.




    I do distringuish, it's enough to be born a jew or a muslim to be a part of the respective religion.
    Which again means you discount conversion.



    I think you confuse religions with cults and sects......
    You would be wrong.

    "We are lovers of beauty without extravagance and of learning without loss of vigor." -Thucydides

    "The secret of Happiness is Freedom, and the secret of Freedom, Courage." -Thucydides

  2. #2
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a Jew

    Quote Originally Posted by Pindar
    Belief in the tenets of the faith. Religion is a belief system: absent the belief one cannot be considered a part of the system.
    I disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pindar
    Which again means you discount conversion.
    Not at all. It's like immigration, good for the prosperity, but rejected by the majority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pindar
    You would be wrong.
    Nah....

  3. #3
    Master of the Horse Senior Member Pindar's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a Jew

    Quote Originally Posted by bmolsson
    Posted by Pindar
    Which again means you discount conversion


    Not at all. It's like immigration, good for the prosperity, but rejected by the majority.
    You assume that because you changed your religious status to wed that all others are equally void of belief. It is not so.

    "We are lovers of beauty without extravagance and of learning without loss of vigor." -Thucydides

    "The secret of Happiness is Freedom, and the secret of Freedom, Courage." -Thucydides

  4. #4
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a Jew

    Quote Originally Posted by Pindar
    You assume that because you changed your religious status to wed that all others are equally void of belief. It is not so.
    Prove it....

  5. #5
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a Jew

    Quote Originally Posted by bmolsson
    Prove it....
    the burden of proof lies with you
    you are the one challenging an established notion

    you have done little to establish your claim other than saying that anything can be anything
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
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  6. #6
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a Jew

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
    the burden of proof lies with you
    you are the one challenging an established notion

    you have done little to establish your claim other than saying that anything can be anything
    It is NOT and established notion that members of a religion have the faith in the appointed deity. Membership of a religion is a administrative status and have absolutely nothing to do with the individual faith.

  7. #7
    Master of the Horse Senior Member Pindar's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a Jew

    Quote Originally Posted by bmolsson
    Prove it....
    Me.

    "We are lovers of beauty without extravagance and of learning without loss of vigor." -Thucydides

    "The secret of Happiness is Freedom, and the secret of Freedom, Courage." -Thucydides

  8. #8
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a Jew

    Quote Originally Posted by Pindar
    Me.
    And the control group ?

  9. #9
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is a Jew

    i am a firm believer in definitions
    it is my belief that we define things as we go

    when we change the fundamentals it becomes something new

    this is an era of personal responsibility
    we should know what to call ourselves on the census lists

    if we do not follow the basic tenents of a religion - we are not part of the club
    these tenants are not simply cultural or based on practice, but in many cases belief - which is really the defining trait of whether that is your religion

    you seem to be playing the word game
    finding alternate meanings for the common understanding AND denying basic naming schemes such as ISM and the entire concept of religiosity

    i do see your point
    some people do claim to be part of a religion when they in fact do not believe
    i think that they are mistaken
    however, i dont know how you can base the claim that MOST people who claim to be part of a religion do not believe in it

    i do not know anyone who doesnt have a faith in god that chooses "Catholic" or another denomination on forms that they fill out

    they tend to check "Other" or "none"
    why do they have that selection on the sheet and why do so many people choose it?

    you mean to tell me that a percent of the population as large as that was raised with NO religion???????? i doubt it - i live in New york and i know VERY few people who were raised as atheists

    they seem to be (for the most part) people who were raised with religion but rejected it, adopting suitable words and definitions - rather than warping the ideas behind pre-established ones

    (this doesnt PROVE anything, but this site seems reasonably reputable
    http://www.religioustolerance.org/var_rel.htm)



    i hate capitalization and punctuation
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 07-14-2005 at 05:23.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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