Quote Originally Posted by Pindar
Your reply telling me my position is flawed. I have never argued faith is metaphysical fancy or any other view you put forward. My position is and has been what I posted.
So what have you argued that faith is then ?


Quote Originally Posted by Pindar
-Creationism is not science.
I have claimed that Creationism is a theory based on social science. You introduced creationism as science. Do you disagree with that Creationism is a theory based on social science ?

Quote Originally Posted by Pindar
-Belief is a necessary condition for religiosity.
And how do you quantify belief ? It's impossible to use a metaphysical belief as a condition for something earthly, freely based on your own views.
Reality is that faith is irrelevant to somebody being a member of a religion or not.
Surely you can bring it all down to an issue in the English language and claim that being religious is not the same as being a member of a religion. You usually do so.

Quote Originally Posted by Pindar
-Religious systems have a core meaning that identifies and distinguishes them.

a) In the case of Islam this would be the Five Pillars the first of which is:
"There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His prophet" (the Shahada).
b) Muslim identity would require agreement with the "A".
The symbolism you are talking about is not the core of a religion seen from scientific view. The pillar you describe can not be proven or quantified, hence it's only a symbol. US is not what it is because of it's flag.

Quote Originally Posted by Pindar
-Tangent: There is nothing in the Indonesian Constitution that requires belief in God. Note: Article 29 of the Indonesian Constitution

(1). The state shall be based upon belief in one god.
(2). The state shall guarantee freedom to every resident to adhere to their respective religion and to perform their religious duties in accordance with their religion and that faith.


There is nothing that states one must believe in God.
The first article of Pancasila:
Ketuhanan yang Maha Esa

The state is actually the people. As mentioned, it has been tested in court already. You have to believe in God to reside on Indonesian soil.