Quote Originally Posted by bmolsson
Posted by bmolsson
So what have you argued that faith is then ?


Good Guys:For the purposes of this conversation I have used faith as a type of belief.

Bmolsson:More word games ? What are you afraid off ?
I don't understand this reply. You asked what faith is and I answer. Why is this a word game?


No, you are avoiding the question.
Creationism is a theory based on social science.

There are no need to cerify the existence of a deity as the creator. In the theory of evolution, you don't have to verify where the origin of life is.
Creationism theory is trying to explain where earth and life comes from, not if there is a creator or not.
This is old ground. You do need to make sure you understand Creationism before you post note: Creationism The position is tied to the existence of a God.



So on your scale, how much faith must one have to have the right to be a member of a religion.
Enough so that they can say: I believe in religion X.



But anthropology is.
The study of man. This usually means various cultures.



My position doesn't fail. The Indonesian constitution might fail though. I didn't write the Pancasila and it has been widely critized for it's flaws on Buddhism and Hinduism (both accepted religions). Furthermore, faith can't be quantified so you can't really be prosecuted as long as you belong to a religion. No religion will test or try to quantify your religion here in Indonesia, since it's scientifically impossible, so regardless you faith, you can be a member of one of the 5 accepted religions.
However, this doesn't change the actual law. You are to believe in God to be allowed on Indonesian soil. This position is enforced by the Indonesian constitution, regardless if Pindar likes it or not.
This is incoherent. You posted the Indonesian Constitution states: "one must believe in God". I have shown you the actual text. It does not say this. I have also given the example of Buddhism which is a non-theistic religion. You admit that Buddhism is recognized in Indonesia, but then say one has to believe in God to be allowed on Indonesian soil. This makes no sense given the above.




First of all, height is different from faith and favorite color. You can quantify height. Faith and favorite color can't be quantified and you just have to legally swear your position, regardless if it's true or not.

If Indonesia decides that Indonesian citizens are 7 ft tall, then everyone not 7 ft tall would not be Indonesian. This was applied in US during the slavery. Everyone with black skin was a slave, with white skin you became a free citizen. So your position here fails.

If Indonesia decides that every Indonesian have green as their favorite color, and they agree, they are Indonesian citizens. If not they will be deported, exterminated or prosecuted. This has been done by civilizations during history and happens in countries like China and North Korea at present time. Once again, your position fails.

With your own logic, faith can not be quantified and is therefore not relevant in "real" life. It's purely symobolic.

So, your position fails, Pindar. If you want to argue the meaning of religion, faith, religious as words in the English language, but the actual topic of our discussions doesn't change. You are wrong.
I don't think you understood my post. Let me try again: law cannot create mental states. Belief is a mental state. Therefore the law cannot create belief. Religion is tied to belief therefore law cannot create religious status.

Note: skin color alone didn't determine slave status in the U.S. There were free Blacks in the U.S. even while there was slavery in the U.S.