Polish laws on mass murder

**Byzantine Prince** · 06-24-2005, 21:06

Seventy-seven people were killed when the pilots' Sukhoi Su-27 fighter jet hit the ground and exploded near Lviv, western Ukraine. More than two dozen children were among the victims.

Pilot Volodymyr Toponar was sentenced to 14 years in prison, and his co-pilot Yuriy Yegorov was sentenced to eight years.

14 years for the murder of 2 dozen kids!?!?! This is insane!

I hope Poland changes now that it's in the EU, because I doubt any other country in Europe would have allowed them anything less then life in prison.

**Don Corleone** · 06-24-2005, 21:16

It's only murder if you intended to kill the children. I actually think that for a negligent homocide, this probably is pretty fair. What's more, I'm impressed with the Poles that they didn't just go after the pilots, they went after the unit leader that enouraged these guys to do that showboat maneuver, as well as the show organizers for not taking adequate precautions.

**PanzerJaeger** · 06-24-2005, 21:17

I doubt they went up that day with the intention of crashing their jet into all those people, although I didnt read the full link...

**Big King Sanctaphrax** · 06-24-2005, 21:17

It seems to me that this was an accident, although admittedly one exacerbated by their errors. It's hardly murder. Indeed, fourteen years is a bit harsh, I feel.

**asilv** · 06-24-2005, 21:19

Polish? Arcticle talks about Ukraine.

**Byzantine Prince** · 06-24-2005, 21:29

Oops, I guess it is Ukraine.

Well I think killing 2 dozen kids when your plane falls on them because you wanted to be playful is pretty murderous. I know the courts would try them for murder, they would obviously try them for manslaughter, but CO-MON! 77 people! That's a huge crime.

**Don Corleone** · 06-24-2005, 21:31

Oops, sorry about that.

**Evil_Maniac From Mars** · 06-24-2005, 21:36

Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

CNN - link

14 years for the murder of 2 dozen kids!?!?! This is insane!

I hope Poland changes now that it's in the EU, because I doubt any other country in Europe would have allowed them anything less then life in prison.

From what I've seen on these forums and in the news, perhap Holland would give them 14.

**Tribesman** · 06-24-2005, 21:52

Polish laws on mass murder really means Ukraines laws on unintentional manslaughter through negligence

Classic

and I thought this was going to be an interesting subject

Then again it is sort of interesting as I am going to the Galway airshow on Sunday , I hope none of these eastern European mass murderers disturb me while I am drinking on the beach

**PanzerJaeger** · 06-24-2005, 22:28

I think intentionally planning for, stalking, and raping then killing one young girl is much more murderous than being too adventurous in an airshow and accidentally killing seventy people.

Now Im all for tough sentences and even a more liberal use of the death penalty but intent is what matters in deciding justice, not the body count.

**The_Doctor** · 06-24-2005, 23:49

Now Im all for tough sentences and even a more liberal use of the death penalty but intent is what matters in deciding justice, not the body count.

I agree with Panzer on this one.

Sukhoi Su-27 fighter jet

Haven't that type of aircraft crashed at other airshows?

**Byzantine Prince** · 06-25-2005, 00:38

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Polish laws on mass murder really means Ukraines laws on unintentional manslaughter through negligence

Well, OR it means polish(or fine tune) the laws on mass murder.

Then again it is sort of interesting as I am going to the Galway airshow on Sunday , I hope none of these eastern European mass murderers disturb me while I am drinking on the beach

I hope so too.

**Spetulhu** · 06-25-2005, 02:36

Originally Posted by Martinus

Haven't that type of aircraft crashed at other airshows?

The best and worst feature of Russian fighter aircraft - they allow the pilot to really, really push the limits. Where a fully modernized western plane will refuse to go outside set limits the Russian machines let you try stuff that could literally tear the aircraft apart. If the pilot makes a mistake there's no computer that takes over.

Or so I've been told.

14 years sounds a bit harsh for unintentionally causing deaths, but I don't know how harsh Ukranian law is on average.

**Papewaio** · 06-25-2005, 08:34

Originally Posted by PanzerJager

I think intentionally planning for, stalking, and raping then killing one young girl is much more murderous than being too adventurous in an airshow and accidentally killing seventy people.

Now Im all for tough sentences and even a more liberal use of the death penalty but intent is what matters in deciding justice, not the body count.

Completely agree, if it was intended it would have been a suicide fighter-bomber terrorist attack, not an accident brought on by criminal negligence.

**InsaneApache** · 06-25-2005, 11:34

BP you were half-right

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lviv#20th_century

Nazi forces invaded Poland on September 1, 1939 and the German 1st Mountain Division reached the suburbs of Lwów on September 12 and began a siege. The city's garrison was ordered to hold out at all cost since the strategic position prevented the enemy from crossing into the Romanian Bridgehead. Also, a number of Polish troops from Central Poland were trying to reach the city and organise the defence there. Thus a 10 days long defence of the city started and later became known as yet another Battle of Lwów. On September 19 a Polish diversionary attack under General Władysław Langner was launched and was unsuccessful. Soviet troops (part of the forces which had invaded on September 17 under the Nazi-Soviet pact) replaced the Germans around the city. On the 23rd Langner formally surrendered to Soviet troops under Marshal Timoshenko.