Heroes of Might and Magic: Total War

[Lonely Soldier]

I'm not really sure if anyone here will know of the Heroes of Might and Magic series, but, though it was extremely camp, it was unbelievably addictive!

With the new system of settlements and movement allowances in Rome: Total War, the gameplay has become nearly identical to that of the HoMM series.

I am not going to be doing any work on this mod other than planning as I have other projects (as you can see by my sig ) so any modders that wish to do this mod go ahead (just don't ask me for any more involvement)!

As far as I can see the main problem there is going to be is to get heroes to use spells (and to get the heroes themselves!).

The Factions

Knights - Castle

Elves - Rampart

Wizards - Tower

Dungeon Overlords - Dungeon

Demons - Inferno

Barbarians - Stronghold

Lizardmen - Fortress

Undead - Necropolis


Structures and Basic Functions
Note: I am not yet sure about which structures have prerequisites and what these requisites are - I'll check and update this post!

General Buildings (available to all factions)

Tavern (cost: 500 Gold, +1 Morale for defenders)

Blacksmith (cost: 1,000 Gold, produces one of three battleild utilities: Ballistae, First Aid Tents or Ammo Carts (not sure how we're gonna do this)

Mage Guilds (allow heroes to learn new spells)
Level 1 (cost: 2,000 Gold)
Level 2 - 5 inclusive (cost: 1,000 Gold)

Marketplace (cost: 500 Gold, improves trade) - Resource Silo (cost: 5,000 Gold, faction dependant bonus/improves trade)

Fort (cost: 5,000 Gold, adds defensive walls)
Citadel (cost: 2,500 Gold, 50% increase to creature number recruitable, adds archer tower and terrain obstacles, moat etc.)
Castle (cost: 5,000 Gold, doubles base creature number recruitable, reinforces walls, adds archer towers)

Town Hall (requires Tavern, cost: 2,500 Gold, gives 1,000 Gold per turn)
City Hall (requires Marketplace, Blacksmith and Mage Guild Level 1, cost: 5,000 Gold, gives 2,000 Gold per turn)
Capitol (requires Castle, only 1 allowed per faction, cost: 10,000 Gold, gives 4,000 Gold per turn)

First Update -
Castle:

Brotherhood of the Sword (requires Tavern, cost: ??)

Shipyard (recruits ships) - Lighthouse (add-on, increases ship movement speeds)

Stables (increases hero/es' movement speed)

Guardhouse (recruits Pikemen) - Upgraded Guardhouse (recruits Halberdiers)

Archers' Tower (recruits Archers) - Upgraded Archers' Tower (recruits Marksmen

Griffin Tower (recruits Griffins, requires Barracks and Blacksmith) - Upgraded Griffin Tower (recruits Royal Griffins) - Griffin Aviery (add-on, can be built before or after Upg. Griffin Tower, improves Griffins and royal griffins)

Barracks (recruits Swordsmen, requires Blacksmith, and all preceding Unit structures) - Upgraded Barracks (recruits Crusaders)

Monastery (recruits Monks) - Upgraded Monastery (recruits Zealots)

Training Grounds (requires stables, recruits Cavaliers) - Upgraded Training Grounds (recruits Champions)

Portal of Glory (recruits Angels) - Upgraded Portal of Glory (recruits Archangels)

Mage Guild - Levels 1-4


Second Update -
Necropolis:

Mage Guild - Levels 1-5


I will add more faction information soon .

[Gaius Drakan]

it sounds extremely good, but the heroes being made, let alone able to use spells will be solid to do

[Kääpäkorven Konsuli]

I'am pretty sure Heroes of Might and Magic-series is copyrighted.

[EvilNed]

Doesn't matter. As long as you don't charge anything for the mod, you can make it.

LOTR is copyrighted, yet there's numerous mods about it coming about... For pretty much every game there is.

Anyway, I'm a big fan of Heroes. I'd love a mod like that. I can't do models or programming however, so that kind of sucks.

[Kääpäkorven Konsuli]

Doesn't matter. As long as you don't charge anything for the mod, you can make it.

You can make it, but there is a chance it might end like this:http://www.memod.co.uk/

[Lonely Soldier]

Gaius Drakan - Yes, heroes and flying creatures will be a challenge, but apart from that Rome is pretty much the same game. For artefacts we can use character traits - its just a matter of getting campaign map placeables to work as pick-ups.

Kääpäkorven Konsuli - Hmmm. You've got a point there. Considering that there are mods of LotR and Star Wars which have not yet been killed off I think our chances are pretty good.


The good thing about the Heroes games is that every unit has pretty much the same stats as Rome: TW units, which means we can just substitute in all of the unit stats from the heroes game and they will work relative to each other. That means no balancing troubles!

[Bwian]

Flying Creatures:

I have given this a serious consideration in my Robots mod, and have abandoned proper 'flying' and gone for low level 'hovering'

You can have a hovering unit that appears to float, but doesn't actually touch the ground. As long as it stays high enough to show clearanse...but low enough to still engage an enemy with weapons. There is also the issue of collisions, and the fact that you cannot suppress the AI attack on the ground below the 'flyer'

I have a hovering platform replacing a chariot, and it works quite well. You could do a flying dragon like that, replace the elephant model, and just keep it flying very low. Should work OK.

Some of the spellcasting units could be made as special units or 'siege weapons', throwing fireballs. You would just have to accept some compromises here.

Also, heroes could be replaced by special units, not recruitable, with particular combat stats. The 'leader' would be a general, with a bodyguard unit. Thats not too hard to do.

The main drawback you will have, as with all fantasy based mods, is the limitations of the games stock skeletons. Vercingetorix is working on an improved version of his animation editing tool, Xidx, whcih hopefully will make this possible, but right now, it's not possible to make custom skeletons.

Good luck with the mod

[radcan]

i had an idea of how to get the dragon flying unit situation to be better how boot you make it so that its is intitially at a high altitude then when it charges you make it like swoop down ?? it may not be possible but i thought id share me idea :)

[Bwian]

The issue is not a question of how high up it is...it's more a question of how the game treats it's location. The AI will attack the unit by walking up next to it and hitting it with a weapon. By just moving the mesh up high, you are not actually moving the unit into the air...just the visible element. The game will treat it as though it were on th ground. IT will also effect other units as if it were on the ground.

You see, as far as the game is concerned, the model mesh you see is just a visible indicator of the actual object. You cannot change the location of the object, since it will ALWAYS be on the ground. The is fixed no matter what you do to the mesh. The game models do not interact polygon to polygon.

[Lonely Soldier]

Bwian - Interesting info Bwian. Well, in the Heroes game the creatures do fly close to the ground (even though the battles are only representational), so I think we could get away with it here!

radcan - It'd be great if that were possible!

In terms of the unit sizes, and how they work in Heroes, I was wondering if it was possible to train say 14 soldiers per recruitment instead of the full regiment but still allow the units of 14 to be combined. Is this possible? This would make Rome's recruiting system close enough to that of the Heroes games.

[Lonely Soldier]

Any interest?

I could provide unit lists, tech trees, unit stats and stuff like that.

[Ilsamir Lord]

This sounds cool! I always liked the Heroes games, and III was my favourite. Doesn't sound too difficult either... as long as flyers are low to the ground and always hovering. Spells are a diffent matter, perhaps they could replace certain techniques like wedge formation or rally call?

Anyway, sounds good! I hope someone adopts it, as Lonely obviously has other things to worry about.

[Lord Winter]

Gaius Drakan - Yes, heroes and flying creatures will be a challenge, but apart from that Rome is pretty much the same game. For artefacts we can use character traits - its just a matter of getting campaign map placeables to work as pick-ups.

Kääpäkorven Konsuli - Hmmm. You've got a point there. Considering that there are mods of LotR and Star Wars which have not yet been killed off I think our chances are pretty good.


The good thing about the Heroes games is that every unit has pretty much the same stats as Rome: TW units, which means we can just substitute in all of the unit stats from the heroes game and they will work relative to each other. That means no balancing troubles!

i think clousure of mods have to do with the competing games in the strategy genre. i suggest contacting the company for promission. Good luck thou. Note:the soliders morale boast will have to be done with retunie

[Epistolary Richard]

Companies contacted in such a manner will almost invariably deny such permission and threaten litigation if you wanted to continue as it would constitute them granting a licence which they could otherwise sell (which they might not be able to do, but wouldn't stop them from thinking they might be able to do in the future). They have to be seen as defending their rights or they might lose them.

Generic names such as elves, undead, lizardmen and so forth are so often used as to be not copyrightable - however specific imagery, pictures, music and trademarked names can be.

Doesn't matter. As long as you don't charge anything for the mod, you can make it.

Absolutely incorrect. Doing something for free is no defence in terms of copyright infringement.

LOTR is copyrighted, yet there's numerous mods about it coming about... For pretty much every game there is.

Yes, and they can all be closed down by the copyright owners with a simple letter as Kääpäkorven Konsuli illustrates above.

[EvilNed]

Absolutely incorrect. Doing something for free is no defence in terms of copyright infringement.


Yes, and they can all be closed down by the copyright owners with a simple letter as Kääpäkorven Konsuli illustrates above.

Yes, the Heroes series is copyrighted. But I can make a small "Heroes of Might and Magic" movie if I wish, and then spread it all over the internet for free! The company can't do a damn thing about it. If that were the case, please explain why there are so many Star Wars fan films on the net...?

[Bwian]

You confuse 'can't' with 'haven't'

The whole issue of whether it is illegal or not to make a mod using someone elses copyright material is pretty simple. It is ILLEGAL. Period. Doesn't matter whether you charge, give it away free, or whatever.

Also illegal, is taping CD's, ripping MP3's, peer to peer sharing of cracked software, speeding, showing a movie to a roomful of people without paying royalties , and, according to popular legend, failing to perform your archery practice ( Brits only for that one ) or using a mobile phone whilst driving.

These things are all illegal in the UK. Now...people seldom get prosecuted, because it is either too hard to catch people, too hard to prove it, or just a very low priority.

Same goes for copyright infringement.

Make a mod, and maybe nothing happens. Maybe, though, they have sold the rights to make a strategy game based on the title for a large sum of money and a software house cried foul. You get a cease and desist order. Ignore that, and you are PERSONALLY liable.

As far as making a 'movie' and distributing it, are you sufficiently well up on corporate law and copyright to make a statement like 'they couldn't touch me' .... If they can't...I would guess it would be down to you using THEIR software to make it and publicising their game. It would be THEIR choice to let you get away. But...if you got a message telling you to stop distributing your movie....

Anyway .... are you actually going to make the Mod, or is this just an endless discussion on copyright laws?

[Ilsamir Lord]

I'd like to see the mod made, simply because I rather enjoyed the Heroes series. The mod has been abandoned by Lonely Soldier, and I'm not going to work on it, I just wanted to see if people were interested.

[EvilNed]

You confuse 'can't' with 'haven't'

If I made the mod, I could simply upload it on a Chinese server. I think even a Canadian server would do, actually, since their copyright laws are different.

If I did that, they couldn't touch me. But even if I uploaded it on a UK server, they wouldn't!

[Ilsamir Lord]

So what about the mod then?

[Lord Winter]

If I made the mod, I could simply upload it on a Chinese server. I think even a Canadian server would do, actually, since their copyright laws are different.

If I did that, they couldn't touch me. But even if I uploaded it on a UK server, they wouldn't!

Copyright laws are international it dosn't make a difference were you upload it to.

[EvilNed]

Copyright laws are international it dosn't make a difference were you upload it to.

Not true, they vary from country to country. In some countries in Asia, as well as Bulgaria, piracy is legal and you can even buy pirated films in stores.

[Epistolary Richard]

Copyright laws do vary, as all laws, however what companies can do is threaten any website that carries links to downloads of pirated material. That's why we don't allow links to No-CD hacks even though they might be hosted on a server where it's legal to have them.

[Ilsamir Lord]

Perhaps there should be a sticky about copyright somewhere? Because discussions of mods, which may be in breach of copyright, seem generally to become discussions of legality rather than the mod itself. Just a thought.

[Valyr]

I am wondering if anyone has thought about doing this mod. I have been thinking of a similar project for the last few weeks, but bringing in some other aspects such as forgotten realms. My ideas are still in their infancy, I am not a graphics artist at all, and just barely begun modding and adding new units to RTW I would love to work on a project like this and help if possible. I think it would be a blast to run a campaign with RTW engine and have the characters and units. Some of my ideas are as possible. And no none of them are original but more of a conglomeration of books and movies.

Total War: Total Fantasy
With the following faction types:

Undead - skeletons, ghosts, zombies, vampires, lycans, liches, mummies

Goblinkind - goblins, orcs, giants(frost, hill, mtn, sand), trolls (all of which could be a mixture of unit types such as archers, slingers, seige, infantry,warg/wolf riders)

Dark Elves - swordsmen, duerger(dark dwarves), spidermen, spiderarchers, necromancers (like the wardogs but with skeletons), could recruit lower level goblinkind as well.

Elves - wood elf archers and rangers(excellent at hiding anywhere or bonus against animal type), high elf knights and pikemen, calvary, illusionist(decrease moral of nearby enemy troops or raise own)

Dwarves - halfling slingers, miners(instead of peasants), axemen, hammermen, wolf riders, gnome siege engineers, beserkers

humans - (normal stuff) archers, swordsmen, calvary, knights, crusaders, pikemen, spearmen, etc

a shapechanger type race(from jennifer roberson's books)- mainly animal handlers (canine(dogs, wolves), feline(cougars, tigers, lions), Ursus(brown bears, black bears, grizzly bears)) and with the largest temple setting the warriors become the animals.

Create a few mercenary units (heros) from the fantasy world that are extremely tough but only recruitable by certain factions and extremely expensive with a rare refresh rate.
maybe a centaur race
different temple units produce shaman,wizards, etc that enhance/reduce troop morale or shoot fire like seige equipment
I have the building structures mapped out for most of these already as far as names and troop production, though any modification to this is possible at current state.

Like I said I am brand new to the modding world and have been thinking about this for a while. Would love to work on this with some experienced modders. I started making some mods to RTW by making a few dwarven units and adding them to RTW, but I get stuck with making the skins and 3d models and I am starting to realize how much work and time goes into this.

If anyone is working something similar or if I inspire some great graphics artists then I am definitely interested in helping.

One last note, I am pretty sure that unless you use actual character/location names then elves, dwarves, gnomes, skeletons, etc are all general terms that cannot be copyrighted. And if we wanted to use character names then we could contact the authors who sometimes are fans of things like this as they are not only players but it promotes their own stories as well.

Thanks and any feedback would be great.

[palissa]

All this posting about nothing, and people saying: ah i love HOMM, but of course nobody who will ever think to make the mod.
Every week come out somebody saying: how cool if we make this mod. And is always somebody who dont ever know how starting a mod. ut not a simple mod, a total conversion, always.
I msut start throwing post like this every week too.

How cool will be if we have a disney total war?

Donald duck against mickery mouse! Goofy, scrooge, and all the company!
Bambi, nemo, and whatever.

Who is in, let sign somewhere.

[Valyr]

Well if a Disney mod is what you want then by all means go for it. I was merely putting up my ideas in supporting the HOMM:Total War, kicking this post up and seeing what comes out of the community, seeing if there are any similar projects in progress, or if anyone was interested in starting one that I would be willing to help as much as possible. Your right I am brand new to modding but I am working on educating myself thanks to the helpful links, tutorials, and advice posted in the forums here. So I will slowly work on the "conversion" in my spare time and enjoy it myself if there is no other project of similar means or there is no interest in the "conversion" from the community.

I wouldn't mind joining you in your Disney creation but 1.) the names are copyrighted by Disney. 2.) I am not sure I would want to follow a project lead that doesn't know how to use the spell checker.

Thanks for your feedback, I guess it is what is called constructive sarcasm. Maybe I should misspell a few things so you can better understand my post.

[Arbaces]

Great idea - It won't be forgotten.

[Anarion]

Will this mod be in progress in near future? is the question