Use of Cataphracts

[soibean]

I was reading back over the Seleucid preview and you said that the Seleucid generals didnt know how to use the cataphracts correctly... How did they use them? And what is the correct way to use them? Also how did the Seleucids battle the Armenians and other northern cavalry types if they're cavalry were, for the majority, too waited down to keep up with their northern counter parts?

[Sfwartir]

Since noone else has answered, I'll give it a go:

The proper way to use Holosideroi/Cataphracts would be to use them as the "hammer", when the enemy is already engaged with the "anvil": Your infantry.

A quite well-known Macedonian, I believe his last name was "the Great" or something like that, used this tactic with reasonable success with his Hetairoi/Companion cavalry (hammer) and phalangitai (anvil).

[eadingas]

Also later used by Patton with tanks instead of cavalry :)

[Copperhaired Berserker!]

Since noone else has answered, I'll give it a go:

The proper way to use Holosideroi/Cataphracts would be to use them as the "hammer", when the enemy is already engaged with the "anvil": Your infantry.

A quite well-known Macedonian, I believe his last name was "the Great" or something like that, used this tactic with reasonable success with his Hetairoi/Companion cavalry (hammer) and phalangitai (anvil).

My goodness, you don't know about Alexander the great? Traitor! get him!

[Keyser]

Cataphracts rely on their armors (additional protection) and weight (momentum) to crash directly into the ennemy, they aren't the most suited for running behind ennemy lines and chasing opposing cavalry...
So i would say that using them like Alexander Hetairoi would be a bad way to use them.

I don't know how the seleucids used them but a charge while in a very dense formation (to prevent the horse to try to evade the shock and focalize the momentum) is the only way i think. Of course, you still can't charge pikes frontally :)

They might be vulnerable to harrassing by horse archers (despite the armour) so it's maybe the reason why some cataphracts units also used the bow.

[Steppe Merc]

Not all cataphracts were slow. Only the richest could afford the armour, arms and horses needed to be a cataphract, and many of the lesser nobles couldn't afford horse armor for example. So no two cataphracts would be equpped the same, and their would be varying degrees of heaviness based on the rank of the noble.

[pezhetairoi]

Alexander didn't use his hetairoi as the hammer in the sense of hitting from the flank to drive the enemy against phalanxes. He charged with his phalanxes, i e the offensive was from the same direction as the general attack, then rolled up the line, not attacked from rear. So you might better call it the hammer-superhammer attack. Fits better.

[Marshal Murat]

If you charge heavy sword wielding soldiers, your guarenteed to succeed, either with the initial shock, or unless they change, H2H with the mace.

I tested it a few hours ago, and the catapracts, when charging a regular legion (cohort, whatever) after hitting them, and going in with the mace, they sustained none, or 1 casualty from the battle.

[jerby]

i think he ment historicaly, not in-game. afaik catapracts had more charging-power against infantry lingnes, but were less effective in cav-cav battles. my guess is Seleucids used them for swiftness, not for power; wich is teh opposite of usefull...

again, as always: correct me if i'm wrong

[SpawnOfEbil]

How did the Parthians use Cats then? They didn't have the anvil to hold an enemy in place.

I read somewhere (think Wikipedia) that they were used to charge into troops pursuing HAs. Is this true?